When is the right time to sell your business? And is it even possible to sell a coaching business? This is a question that many business owners ask themself at some point during their ownership. There are many factors to consider when making this decision, and there is no single answer that suits everyone. In this episode of the Influence By Design podcast, we discuss how to sell your coaching business with Chris Dufey.
Chris Dufey is an entrepreneur, author, and investor who helps online business owners be successful and build the business and life they want.
Selling a business can be a tricky prospect, and it’s important to know what factors you should consider when determining if the time is right for you. Chris shares his experience of going through the process of selling his business, including how to prepare for a sale, and what to keep in mind regarding pricing, timing, and more.
Indeed, deciding when to sell is an intensely personal choice, and it can be difficult to balance all the factors involved. This episode is for you if you’re considering selling your business and want to know more about what to expect.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- The importance of having a passion for what you’re doing (07:18)
- Is selling your business a negative experience? (13:34)
- The different motivators (21:19)
- What makes a business sellable? (23:36)
- Things to prepare before selling a business (28:44)
- The differences between fast and slow thinking (33:44)
- Why it’s important for others to understand what’s good for you (38:48)
- The importance of self-love in life and business (44:07)
QUOTES:
- “When you can have direct focus into something, there is a magic that starts to happen from there.” -Chris Dufey
WHERE TO FIND CHRIS DUFEY
- Website: https://www.chrisdufey.com/
- LinkedIn: Chris Dufey
- Instagram: Chris Dufey
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ABOUT CHRIS DUFEY
Chris Dufey is an investor, author, father of 4, filmmaker, health-nut and is obsessed with helping you build a business and life you love…
Ultimately Chris is sharing “the journey beyond success, and to fulfillment”.
Currently living between Bali and Australia, Chris is working on how to best grow businesses, be the best father and husband, and create more meaning with the work he loves.
Having built and sold his first coaching business for 7-figures, Chris’ content is focussed on the Christopher Dufey Podcast, on the Christopher Dufey YouTube Channel and Instagram.
TRANSCRIPTION (AI Generated)
Chris Dufey Snippet 00:00
Wanting to go through the process, accepting that you need to go through the process. And much of that process is not going to be fun, it’s not going to be easy, it’s not going to be enjoyable. And that’s okay. That’s a part of the process. Life is not meant to be fun, easily enjoyable the entire time. And I think that’s a huge learning point.
Samantha Riley Intro 00:28:
My name is Samantha Riley, and this is the podcast for experts who want to be the unapologetic leader in their industry. We’re going to share the latest business growth, marketing, and leadership strategies, as well as discussing how you can use your human design to create success in business and life. Inside and out. It’s time to take your influence, income, and impact to the level you know you’re capable of. Are you ready to make a bigger difference and scale up? This is the Influence By Design podcast.
Welcome to today’s episode of influence by design, I’m your host, submit the Reilly and today we’re talking about a super interesting topic, something that I have been wanting to talk about for a long time with someone. And finally, I found someone in my world that I can talk about this with. So I’m welcoming Christopher to the show today. And we’re going to talk about how Chris recently sold his coaching business. So welcome to the show, Chris. I’m really looking forward to this conversation.
Chris Dufey 01:25
Thank you so much, Sam, I’m really looking forward to being able to dive into this with you and just honestly just chat with you. I think that’s the thing selfishly, I’m gonna get the most out of today.
Samantha Riley 01:35
Likewise, there’s, you know, I think that one of the things I love about these podcasts is I get to have these amazing conversations with people just like we’re sitting in a coffee shop and having this private conversation that we get to share with nearly 30,000 people a week. So that’s pretty cool. Before we dive in, I’d love you to share what was your business?
Chris Dufey 01:55
So the my previous company was coaches cartel, which was a business coaching company that really we helped health and fitness professionals build and grow their online business.
Samantha Riley 02:09
And why don’t you give us a bit of a walk through of, you know, how long ago did you start your business? You know, what sort of gave you the idea to start that business and what your dreams and goals were back when you started?
Chris Dufey 02:25
Okay, great question. So, let me go back to I became a personal trainer when I was 18, I was actually really overweight as a child, it was something that really held me back. And when I’d finished school, I really got into needing and wanting to get in shape. And I started to do that. And I saw the transformation within myself and I wanted to help other people go through that as well. And especially, honestly, like After leaving school, I didn’t really know what I wanted to do at all. And I had this passion with health and fitness. I’ve always been athletic, always played sports, always loved it, but it was the it was the weight that really held me back and not just actually physically they held me back from being able to be a high level athlete, but the mental stuff as well, that really doing got me down and got me not showing up as the person I’d love to be as well. So when I started to see that physical transformation, there was an inner transformation that happened with me, and I was like, I want to share this with others. So I became a personal trainer when I was 18. And then I ran a personal training business throughout Sydney. I then had the opportunity to move to Dubai to start a fitness business there which I very much took up which my wife was pregnant with our first child. Three days, we found out three days before that my wife was pregnant that I got this opportunity to go to Dubai. So Oh, wow, that was a very interesting story kind of behind that
Samantha Riley 03:52
there’s would have been a lot going on there.
Chris Dufey 03:56
So went to Dubai, I started a fitness business there slept on the couch for three months made it happen. During we started a family moved to Dubai as a family. But I did again what I did when I was in Sydney and I burnt out as a personal trainer, I was quite literally working from 6am to 6pm six days a week I called it the devil’s number. And I burnt out and I had started to want to run an online business I doing I’d read The Four Hour Workweek I’d seen some other people being able to live this amazing lifestyle. And it was just this dream of oh my god, like I would love to be able to run this online business helped more people than just the limitations of who I could see in a face to face environment, be able to earn more money and especially than the freedom like doing be able to live where we want and provide for my family in the ways that I wanted to as well. And so when I really I burnt out in Dubai, my wife was like, we don’t want to live here anymore. You can’t keep doing this. You just got to run yourself into the ground and And let’s move to Bali, you kind of dabbling in this online thing. Let’s do it. And so three weeks later, we had sold everything packed everything up, gave my clients away the whole kitten caboodle, and we were in Bali. And I’d started my online fitness business. And then not after too long, I just had heaps of trainers reaching out to me, they knew me as a trainer in Sydney, they knew me as a trainer then in Dubai, and then they were like, how you doing this online thing? And how have you made this happen. And so I started helping some trainers and demeanor just continue to grow, continue to have more trainers coming to me. And then at one point, I actually decided, like, Oh, I’m gonna lean into this a little bit more, I ran a in person workshop in Australia, for a bunch of trainers. They got great results from what I taught them during this five day workshop. And I was like, This is awesome, I really want to do this. And then I don’t know how sad but something happened. And there was a switch in me. And I fell more in love with the business than I did with the fitness. The transformations are seeing someone transform their business and how that then parlayed into how that transform their life lit me up inside so much more than the fitness side of things. I want to do this, this is incredible. And so then the kind of like me online coaching started. And so there was an interesting fork in the road. And it comes to a good mutual friend of ours taki more, and taki was over in Bali with his family one time and we’re catching up for a lunch because, again, another mutual friend, I attended James Franco’s event. And then the year after James actually asked me to speak at his event, and then that’s when I met Taki. And then we just kind of like started this tiny little friendship that was a spark there, he kind of kept in a little bit of contact. But then I was sitting with tonky, having lunch with him in Bali, and we got talking about business. And he was like, So what’s going on, and I was doing the online fitness. I was doing the online business coaching, I was also running a supplement business as well, those these three things I was doing. Yep. And very wisely. He was just like, I think you should do one
Samantha Riley 07:18
here. And I recommend when something like this Hey, dude, I’ve got an idea.
Chris Dufey 07:22
Yeah, it very much went something like that. Yeah. And essentially, I was like, Okay, I’m going to just do the online business coaching. That’s the thing where I feel like my passion and where I was getting the good feels inside from as well. So I killed the other two businesses. And I just went to the online business coaching. And that is essentially after a little while, turned into the coaches cartel, then one to skip a few. I sold the business pretty much two months ago today from our recording,
Samantha Riley 07:52
and congratulations on that very on all of it that congratulations on your two month anniversary. There are so many pieces in there that I can really relate to one being really burnt out in the fitness industry, when I came out of you know, doing my search for fitness. And I think it was maybe about six weeks later, there was the rec essay fitness awards. And I was put forward for newcomer of the year into the industry. And it was purely because I had 37 sessions a week, I still remember the number. Everyone’s like, how did you do 37 sessions a week, six weeks out? And that was like the, what’s the word sort of like, you know, that was the success marker, I guess. And it’s kind of a really weird success marker. Because, you know, as you said, you burn out. And as coaches as people that are that are helping people to make transformations, when we’re burnt out, our clients are not going to get the results that they’re looking for in the same way because they kind of like a mirror to what’s going on. And something else that really stood out to me was really having a passion for fitness. But understanding that was actually the business, the behind what you’re doing. That is the bit that you want to go with. And I think that even that little part of the story is really important because a lot of people go into what it is that they love doing and try and create a business and it’s not always the right way to do it. And for me, I discovered really quickly that I love fitness. I love going to boot camp. I loved having training sessions. I didn’t love being a trainer as much as I did enjoy doing it for myself. Yes. So they’re really good. I mean, you know, oh,
Chris Dufey 09:38
I know tons of trainers in the exact same their fitness enthusiast themselves. So therefore they kind of assumed that that’s what they should do for business. And yeah, that’s a topic in itself that I find very interesting. And then they end up doing something and then they lose their passion for fitness because they were doing it for the wrong reasons.
Samantha Riley 09:59
Yeah. I think okay, like we all come from a place. So the right intention, you know, like you were saying, we had this amazing transformation, and we wanted to share that with others. But there are other ways that we can do that without actually being the trainer. And, you know, if there’s anyone listening now, this may resonate in the business that you’re currently in, you know, sometimes a pivot is needed, or, you know, exactly like you said, Chris, you let two of your businesses go when you really realized, while I’m doing these three things, it’s actually holding me back. Because I’m guessing that as soon as you let those other two things go, there was a big change in coaches cartel, can you tell us about what happened, once you kind of went all in on that decision, and, you know, put your foot on the gas and went for it?
Chris Dufey 10:49
I think the crux of it is, we only have so much bandwidth and mental capacity that we really have at the end of the day. And for so long, I prided myself as well. I remember saying this to taki being like, do just show me the way I’ll run through walls, and I’ll make it happen. And I could endure pain I was very I was I was very good at it. And I say was because I don’t want that to be an element that I operate from I know it’s, it’s a GI that I can use and turn into when needed. But I don’t want that my default operating system now moving forward. And when you are able to have direct focus into something and pour all of your heart and soul and effort and your blood and sweat and tears and everything into it, there is magic that starts to happen from that, rather than having a diffused kind of focus from it as well. So I think it’s really wanting to go through the process, accepting that you need to go through the process. And much of that process is not going to be fun, it’s not going to be easy, it’s not going to be enjoyable. And that’s okay, that’s a part of the process. Life is not meant to be fun, easily enjoyable the entire time. And I think that’s a huge learning point that I’d love people to be able to pick and take away from today and kind of see how they can apply it to themselves because we don’t know their without here, we don’t have light without dark. We don’t have good without bad in without our up without down. We live in a world of polarities. And you’ve got to accept the polarities that come through it as well. Yeah. And so for me, it was okay, I’m just going to do this thing. This is what I’m doing now. And you become consumed with Ubik. You just use it like every if you’re not waking up like it was funny, because quite literally last night, in the middle of the night, I just kind of came awake. And I could tell my brain was just solving business problems with the partners that I’m working with right now. And I’m like, I can just tell my subconscious is just like mulling through the things and like getting to solutions. I was like, that’s awesome. Like, you know, maybe like, yeah, kind of roll back around and like fall back asleep and let it do its work. And so I just think there’s some real power when it comes to focus. And so I think the important point that I would love to highlight with that, Sam is, if someone hasn’t truly dedicated themselves to what it is that they want to do, and to where it is that they want to go, then do not expect the result to come about.
Samantha Riley 13:34
Oh, my goodness, so much gold. Let’s talk about selling the business because there is a big misconception from a lot of people. And I’ve heard it and we were having a chat before we started recording that you can’t sell a coaching business. I was also told that I owned a dance studio for 20 years and people told me for the whole 20 years you can’t sell a dance studio. And even I remember maybe it was about 12 years in I’d had the first inkling that I wanted to sell. And someone said to me, Oh, how about you’re gonna love this one? How about you tell everyone when you close that they could come to our dance studio, and for every student that signs up will give you 20 bucks. And I’m like, Are you kidding me? That was enough right in that conversation to go there’s no way I’m selling for that. Then no skin in the game there. I did end up selling it at the 20 year mark, which was great. It’s gone like that that. Is that the four minute mile? Is that Is that what it is? Where Yes, you know, no one that everyone said it couldn’t be done until it was done? When did you have the idea that you actually wanted to sell your business?
Chris Dufey 14:45
So it’s a good question, because I think there’s a couple of parts sort of I think the there was the idea that I would like to be able to sell the business. And I think there was some bubbling feelings and thoughts So as to why I wanted to do that, which is something I would love to unpack with you on that because I think that’s really important. Let’s say 18 months ago could be a ballpark time in which I said it was like, Alright, this is when I want to sell it. Now, I say this parts is because there is a big difference between I just recently actually read a fantastic essay by Harry Frankfurt called on bullshit. And it’s a fantastic piece, which talks about, like, we can’t lie to ourselves, but we can bullshit ourselves. Hmm. And there is a very, there is a difference between there and how we need to do that, and especially something that’s quite topical for me right now is, what does it really mean? Okay, excuse me, this is probably going to go a little bit deeper than kind of like the initial question. No, let’s
Samantha Riley 15:56
do it. Yeah, like,
Chris Dufey 15:58
what does it mean to live up to our potential? What does it mean to live a meaningful life? What does it mean to live a good life? At the end of the day, which I would assume, rightly or wrongly that you want to do I want to do the listener wants to do and so what does that really come down to at the end of the day, and I think a part of the core essentials for that is that we are needing to have better contacting reality. So we’re actually seeing reality and being a part of reality for what it is, rather than, on the flipside, bullshitting ourselves or just being delusional at the end of the day. And we best need to build our character so that we show up to do the things that we need to be able to do on a day to day level to be able to be have and achieve what it is that we want at the end of the day. So as I kind of like wrangle the philosopher back in, I’ll bring it back to more the entrepreneur right now. And so there was me saying that, Oh, I would like to sell this business. That’s very different to me believing I can sell this business, which then very much differs from what you do to actually get that done at the end of the day, as well. So there is a there was a big time gap between when I actually thought it to when I actually started to really believe it, to when I truly actioned it, and for that to happen as well.
Samantha Riley 17:23
Yeah, I love that. I really love that. So, obviously, actually, there was something that you said there that let’s start there. And that is why you wanted to sell the business. This is, I think, a really, really important piece. I’d love to hear your why, but also some of the questions that our listeners need to ask themselves in answers so that they need to know whether this is something that they want to start exploring for themselves.
Chris Dufey 17:54
Love this. Why would I want to sell the business is the question that the listener needs to have, should, I shouldn’t say need, may want to have running through their brain right now. For me, there was a few things that kept coming up, rightly and wrongly. And let’s start with wrongly, I wanted to have the story as a part of me and my life. And what I’ve done, I wanted to build and sell a company, most likely because it’s a social signaler. It’s a status signal of demean and egotistical, doing pursuit at the end of the day. And I saw that after a little while, and I was like, Oh, hang on, I’m wanting to be able to have the story to tell myself and essentially to tell others, or I built and sold a company. And so I came to peace without being like, oh, okay, that’s not the most virtuous reason as to why I want to be able to do something, then it really came to the one point that really broke the camel’s back, which is what actually then got me to execute immediately on what got the company sold was, I wanted to be more, I didn’t want to have more. I’d evolved past the business, I’d evolved into a new person, if I could be perfectly honest. I wanted to be able to do and be someone different. And to be able to go into domain, a greater evolution of my life as well. And so me staying in that business was going to hold me back from really doing what it is that I wanted to do. And for me, it could be like, I want to be more I don’t want to have more. It wasn’t about the quite literally in the negotiations of the sale. Josh that bought the company from me. He turns around and goes, dude, if you hang on to this for a little bit longer, you’ll make millions more because he knew he knew the business. intimately. He knew every number absolutely everything and he was like, if you hold on to this little bit more, you’ll make millions more and I go so It was interesting because I’m currently writing a book at the moment called Enough is enough. And I want to be able to answer what is enough at the end of the day? What is it that we’re really striving for? And how do we best align ourselves to do and be who we need to be. So, essentially, on our deathbed, we can have admiration and pride for ourselves. And I had to put my money where my mouth was at the time, and I go, you know, this is not about money right now. Like it’s a part of it. But it’s not the whole thing. And I was at peace of leaving millions on the table, and taking what I knew would become so much more fruitful, which is, there’s something we can dive into as well. So what’s actually happened to me and kind of like two months, both, but something has become so much more fruitful, therefore afterwards as well. So the why I think is, okay, great, I have dinner mean, x amount of millions of dollars, I have freedom to now go and do something else, I have this story that I can now do something like there’s these different parts of it that fell along. But I think if I was to really give you the truth as to what mattered to me, it gave me the ability to go on to do the next things, and to help push me to grow and evolve into what I wanted to do and be
Samantha Riley 21:19
I just want to dive into one little tiny thing before we moved on. And you said that the put this in air quotes, the wrong lead piece was that you wanted to say that you bought and sold a business, I think it’s really important that we’re all different. And we all have different motivators. And that that was wrong for you. But it might not be wrong for someone else. But that’s my take on it. But I’d love to hear your take on that, you know, in having this conversation.
Chris Dufey 21:48
Yeah, no, absolutely. I say it’s wrongly because essentially, that belief that thought that desire is based on what somebody else’s thinks of me.
Samantha Riley 22:00
I see what you’re saying. So yeah, in my head, I’m thinking, because I’ve got I’m very competitive with myself. And I want to say that kind of ticked these certain things off in my life, because that’s kind of what motivates me, I like to try and do all these different things. So what you’re saying is, it’s just the perspective, is it the perspective of you looking out? Or is it the perspective of, you know, going within?
Chris Dufey 22:24
Correct, and it’s like, I don’t think it’s correct for us to base our kind of success markers of life and why we’re doing things is to have somebody else’s point of view of us in a certain way. I don’t think that’s
Samantha Riley 22:42
so glad that I went there, because that was just so perfect. Yeah.
Chris Dufey 22:46
And so for me, success is not what happens from an outcome. It’s not the outcome that you get from an action. That’s not what success is, for me, success is the motivation that is behind what you do.
Samantha Riley 23:03
Love that so much. Love that so much. So once you decided that you that you had the why for why you wanted to sell a business, what needed to happen in that 18 months to make this like to successfully have the sale? And I guess we’re asking this again, what was your experience? And also what are people’s need to start thinking about if they’ve like, you know, what I’m going to sell my business to?
Chris Dufey 23:31
Yeah, this is great. So I love this. Because this is now what I’m doing so much with my partner. So it’s like, this is quite literally a very topical kind of like day to day thing for me right now. The biggest thing was okay, I had the thought, I want to sell this business. All right, well, then, what is a sellable business? What is a sellable asset of the business at the end of the day, and then there’s a couple of kind of like leading questions that comes in this, which is one who could possibly buy this business. And so it is much easier to really be very clear on the who will buy this business. Because then from that day, everything you do should be aligned with having the business built and structured and operating in such a way that that buyer will want it that way. So then a couple of obvious things then fall into place, which is like, Okay, well, I can’t be the face of the business, that’s one of the biggest things is kind of like the next thing to take off, which is okay, from you, the business must be able to run, operate and grow without you being there. And so therefore, one of the easiest, kind of like practical ways to think about this is what let’s do two, I’ll give two really good ones, which is one think of the old chart and in the old chart right now, I think of all the different positions or the different roles and responsibilities as to what’s going on quite depending on the kind of the size and where the scale of the business is right now. You You, as in the listener, could be holding quite a few of those hats right now. And that’s perfectly fine. That’s totally cool. So therefore, it’s just about how are you able to delegate or systemize that role and responsibility to someone or something else. Another great way. And I actually suggest doing both of these is do a time audit on yourself. And this is something I learned from a great friend and mentor of mine, Alec scharffen, which is do a time audit of yourself, every single thing you do work wise, for the next two weeks, you’re going to keep track of and you track what you’re doing the start time, the end time. And then you can start to categorize how much work is tactical how much work is strategical, and you can kind of get like into the nitty gritty of it as well. And so then essentially, you want to start passing off, especially the tactical pieces of the work, and then more into the strategical decision making. So then you can really make sure that their business is starting to operate without you being there as well. And so one of the points that I found really kind of like, emotional, if I could be honest for me, was, there was one day I had on my videographer for us to shoot some ads. And I was on the bikers back in Bali, I was on the bike riding to the place that we’re going to shoot the ads. And our head coach was going to be in the ads with me as well, we’re going to be shooting these ads with the two of us. And I was just like, No, I’m not going to be in these videos. I’m not going to do this, and I got there and I go, Hey, dude, you’re going to do these videos, just you not me. I’m going to sit in the back and just kind of direct but essentially, I just sat there and doing had a coffee, watching the videographers and then shoot these videos. And I was just like, oh my god, this is happening without me. And then it was a couple of days after I saw like press the retargeting, I saw the ads come up, and it was not me. And I was just like, This is the coolest thing in the world. Yeah. And then it was not long as well after that, that there was clients getting signed on. So when I thought about it, there was these people had gone through the lead generation, they’ve seen content, they’ve gone through the sales process, they’ve now been on boarded into the coaching, and they didn’t know who I was. And I was like, Okay, now now I’m starting to get traction. Now. Now this is actually starting to get to something that is an asset that I can now sell.
Samantha Riley 27:40
How long was it but like in that 18 month period, from the time that you decided that you were going to sell to that time where you had taken yourself out of the face of the business? Did that happen quite quickly,
Chris Dufey 27:51
no 12 months, maybe even a little bit longer. I just know, it took a bit longer than 12 months, Sam, because I didn’t truly believe it. And therefore I didn’t truly action the things that I needed to. I would say when I was like, no, no, this is going to happen. There was an extremely prolific three to four months that just like stuff got done. And that was like, Oh, like this is happening right now. But typically, I would say if someone’s like if someone has a decently sized business, or coaching business right now, and they’re like, I want to turn this into a sellable asset, I don’t want to be the face of it, I understand that. I would say, All right, let’s give ourselves 12 months of runway to kind of build that in because you want to make sure that the kind of what I call the operating system of the business. And the team members are properly in place skilled, incentivized properly, and therefore able to do what they need to do.
Samantha Riley 28:53
Cool. Let’s talk systems and processes because you were talking about, you need to know who is going to buy it, so that you can start to build the business so that it’s, you know, attractive, I guess to that, to that ideal buyer. You just talked about lead generation, what are some of the other systems and processes that you had to put into place or change that weren’t already in place to be able to get it to that point that it was ready for sale?
Chris Dufey 29:22
Again, okay, so I had to redo everything. There was quite literally over about a nine month period, we actually changed literally everything we became a completely new company. Every team member had either changed seats on the bus or had gotten off the bus and been replaced. What we sold was drastically different. How we sold was drastically different. And the operations of the business was drastically different. And so it was extremely systemized. I think that was one thing that I just like I bled through the forehead for for quite some time to ensure, and it’s something that I now I’m like, really confident in being able to put together and it’s something that I kind of enjoy, which is like, how does a business truly run like clockwork? Like, how does it really operate? And what are those key parts to that engine? Such as what’s the does every team member have crystal clear clarity over what their roles and responsibilities are? What a win is. So everyone can point to the scorecard and go, I’m winning, I’m not winning. And they know exactly what tasks to do, when to do and how to do it. And there is like, there’s a complete run through of how like, personally, how I do that with coaching and service businesses. But it was literally building that whole thing out. And so like, standard operation procedures, as much as it felt like, as boring as chewing on cardboard, was just something I just had, like, we just did it, and we talked about it every single day. But then also a part of it, there’s the not so physical part of it, which is like the culture with the businesses world, and ensuring that all of the team is flowing and moving in using all of these processes as best as possible. And they’re, they’re being able to take it and run with it and be able to do better with it as well. So there was obviously a huge culture change that we had to go through with the business as well, which was, which was painful and hard. And like was not nice, really. And there was like there was a few months where I was like looking back. Many of us were like, wow, that’s shocked. Do you know me like that? Like, we I remember, there was one meeting, we’re on this zoom call. And a few of us were just like, wow, those last few like, it was kind of like we’d gotten out into the clearing. And then we can look back and go, Oh, that really sucked. Like that was hard. Let’s not do that again. And learning from our mistakes and learning through that process as well. So that was really interesting.
Samantha Riley 32:05
You mentioned that the team, you had some that change seats on the bus, some that got off the bus, I find people or you know, I was gonna say managing people, but it’s not. It’s that culture piece that you mentioned, that sometimes this can be the hardest piece when you need to change people around? How did you decide how people were going to move? Who had to get off the bus? How did that all transpire? And that might be a really big question, sort of as it’s coming out. But I’m sure you’ll have your own take on what’s going on there.
Chris Dufey 32:38
I first started entering from a selfish point of view. And it was a case of what am I fed up with? And what is it that I want from this now on. And so for example, the cadence of meetings that we used to have was like, there was weekly meetings, it was caught, like it was like is there was meetings all over the place. And I was just like, this sucks. I don’t want to do this. Like I don’t, I don’t want to be on meetings the whole time. And I was like, I sat down. And I’ll go, how do I replace meetings to have something much more efficient, much more effective and much more fun. And I came up with a cadence that worked really well. So I scrapped all weekly means the only meetings that we had, there was four meetings at the end of every month. That was it, which took including time a little bit after it took a bit about two and a half hours. And so what I did was I moved from synchronous communication to asynchronous communication, which is we don’t need to be so at the moment, you and I were synchronized with our communication, right? And we’ve got to be on this call to be able to do this. Asynchronous communication could be like, alright, well, if I need to get something through for you, Sam, I could send you a Slack message. Or if it’s a little bit more detailed, there’s a little bit more nuance to it, I’ll put into a loom video, and then I can send it through. And then so the beauty about asynchronous communication and why I apply this into the businesses that I’m in now is because if I send something through to you, it first forces me to properly think through it first, which will get me to a lot of the time probably solve the problem without ever having to bug you in the first place. However, if I don’t solve it, I’ve thought through the process even deeper, and I’ve had to put it together in a way that I’ve needed to communicate it, hopefully somewhat effectively as well. Then I’ve passed I’ve recorded the quick few minutes loom video, let’s say for you, and I’ve sent it to you, you then can now sit down, watch it, consume it, but then you have the time to reflect and think through the process as well. So it’s the difference between the it’s called like fast thinking and slow thinking. And so slow thinking is us being able to like really actually dissect it and like, if you send something through for me, Sam asynchronously, I can better have the time and space to start looking at the assumptions that you’re making with the thinking process that you have with what it is that you’ve put together with why you think a certain solution is going to be the most effective. What can happen is if we’re in a meeting right now, this can happen in podcast interviews as well. Whereas like, something comes up. And we both kind of run with this thread. And we continue to run with this thread, not truly thinking through the assumptions and thinking points, and we miss things behind us. And we’ve kind of left things behind, we forget about it. And we’ve kind of run off with something else. And therefore we actually don’t either truly solve the problem. Or we could actually be working on the wrong problem. Actually, the most typical things when I come in, and I sit down with someone right now with an entrepreneur, I would say 95% of the time, right now, they’re working on the wrong problem. And I can go Oh, Hang on dude actually doing you think you’re doing this? Because you think this is the problem, actually, the problems over there. And if you solve that thing over there, right now, this won’t ever show up. So it’s kind of the process of like making one decision to stop making 100 decisions.
Samantha Riley 36:19
And people also make decisions in different ways. I work with my clients a lot with human design. Yes, people that have got an emotional authority. Yes. You know, which my husband does, it took me a little a little bit to understand. So I make decisions really, really quickly. When he was in corporate, he used to hate being asked questions in team meetings, and have to answer them on the spot. And now that he’s working in my business, I understand that that is the worst way to work with him, because he’s so detail oriented. But he needs time to look at it. He needs time to think about it. And he will come up with the answer that is 10 times greater than what he would have given you, if you had have been in a meeting and 100% said, Hey, what’s this
Chris Dufey 37:02
Sam brilliant that you bring this up? Because this is actually something I look at with all my partners now. And it started with Kylie. And so it’s really interesting, because I especially like with humans, designs, like we’re totally like opposite. For me, I make decisions and I know answers straightaway. Yeah, I’m the same intuitively. Bang, I’ll know it. And is there any if I don’t, I’ll just completely put it off. And it’s like a no. And I’ll leave it for now. And so for me, and one thing I got toward actually going really deep into this, there’s actually a couple I can connect to you later, if you’re really interested into this stuff. There’s a couple actually in Austin, and they took me through their process. And she taught me something amazing and was so true that I’d never picked up on in my 35 years of life. That’s why I’d never picked up on. And so for me, I get to my answers really quickly, but through noises. And so just what you did, then, yep, just what you did that say curl. So for me, I listen. And I look for what the noise is that wants to come out of me. So if you’re like, hey, what do you think of this, Chris? And you know, I could be like, which is a good thing I could though, which is like, not like do you mean I’m not sure?
Samantha Riley 38:17
Not really sure.
Chris Dufey 38:19
We, which is a no Yeah. Now, it’s really a shame. Because when I learned that, then I thought about it as me as I’ve got four daughters. And so then I thought about it in parenting as well. And so obviously knowing which one of my daughters is more good to have them again, more towards that way. So it is incorrect. For me. It is. Yeah, I’ll stick with that wording. It is incorrect for me with those Daughters of mine. For me to say no, no. Use your words. That yeah, totally. Nothing to do wrong things. Yeah. Just make noise. Make noise. And that’s it. You just did it again. Yeah, it’s interesting. So it’s, it is interesting when we start to peel this onion back and understanding ourselves. And I think that’s where so much when it comes to content. And you know what, I’m really struggling right now, Sam, my content manager was like, You need to shoot me Instagram reels and YouTube shorts. Try and keep them to like 30 to 40 seconds and I go I struggle I struggle because I like and want to talk to nuance. And that means things take a little bit longer so I enjoy these longer form conversations. I enjoy being able to say like, Hey look like let’s think through this process together because a lot of the time I want to be able to pass out because a piece of advice such as like, oh like if you say something to me or I just had a doing a consultation before and I need to make a decision on the spot and I’ll know straightaway about that advice. For someone else could be exactly the wrong thing to do exactly the wrong thing to do. Yep. And so I just kind of want to highlight that because I find it very interesting and important for everyone to understand what’s right for you. So coming back to kind of like, original discussion, selling the business, it’s will what’s right for you? Because there’s a couple of key parts when it comes to me helping people go through this process right now, which is, okay, why do you wants to sell the business getting clear on that and coming to peace with what it is? And then it’s understanding will? What is the actual processes that you need to go through? Like, who do you actually need to become to be able to do that? And then really, the unraveling that and understanding what it is they need to because then the actual, how do you go through the actual projects and the tasks and setting that that stuff? That’s the easy stuff, if I could be honest as well. But it’s really coming to the crux of like, Who do I need to be? And then how to I need to be show up. So that then easily comes into place?
Samantha Riley 41:05
Love it. So Chris, what have you been up to in the last two months since you sold coaches cartel?
Chris Dufey 41:14
Yeah, I again, but please, everyone, just don’t do what I say. And maybe not as I do. I talked with many mentors and colleagues that had exited companies previously. And I was like, what’s the advice? A lot of the advice was like, take time off, give yourself the breathing room, six months off, 12 months off, and like others going through it as well as, okay. Okay. Like listening. Yeah. Okay, this sounds good. Like trying to really get a lay of the land. Remember, so clearly is is really interesting. So the very last call. So between time of signing the LOI of the business and full exit of the business, nothing to do with it whatsoever was five weeks negotiation that I put together. So it was literally five weeks to put it all, and which was great as well, because Josh, that then became the CEO, we negotiate. I like put together this curriculum is Alright, we’ve got five weeks, this is exactly what we’re going to do over five weeks to have everything absolutely amazing. We covered everything in two weeks. But at the end of the second week, we’re at a meeting and I look at him, and I’m just like, Dude, we’ve we’ve covered everything, like you know, the ins and outs of absolutely everything. He’s like, Yeah, we do. I tell you what we’re gonna do for next three weeks, I’m just going to test your assumptions through every single point. And which is it was really fun. And I learned so much going through this process as well. Whereas like really looking to will like, what’s the problem you’re seeing? Why do you think that’s a problem? What are you going to do about that problem? Why do you think that’s going to be the right solution to the problems, that’s all we’re doing as entrepreneurs, we’re just solving problems at the end of the day. And so really getting deep into that and making it very practical. That was fun. And then the date had come, I get on the this zoom call and a bunch of the team members on there. And essentially, the call was just pretty much to say goodbyes, to change passwords and to kick me out of all the platforms. Yeah. And so we did that in about 1520 minutes. We said our goodbyes had some funny stories. Gentleman, shed a little bit of a tear. And then I’m like, Okay, thanks. And I’m like, I click Leave, leave zoom call. And I’m like peace out fellas. And I was like, oh my god, it’s done. Huh, I got up out of my office. I messaged my wife. She knew roughly about what time I would be finished. We met at a cafe down at the beach, I had a soda water. And after about 30 minutes, I was like, I’m bored. Yeah, go back to work. And after 30 minutes, I went back to work. I knew exactly what I wanted to do. Sam after it like that. That was the thing. I was very clear on that. And in the last two months, I really came to the fruition that I was like, I know what I’m good at. I know what I really enjoy. And I want to partner with businesses that I love. There’s like a three point criteria that I have for the people that I want to be able to partner with. And so now I’ve got a bunch of really great partners that I’m working with and working on growing their businesses and I absolutely love it. And I’m like we’ve also moved countries as well. So as a family of six, we actually moved from Bali, we’ve come back to Australia. We’ve been back in Australia for just over a month now. It’s been beautiful coming back here feeling like we’ve just slotted into a fantastic community. And I am literally waking up and going to bed every single day just in awe of how grateful I am of how everything is. I’m very much looking forward to the unfolding of everything to come as well.
Samantha Riley 44:54
love that so much. Congratulations again on the salary business. I think it’s fantastic. Rick, and I love everything that you’ve shared today, there’s just so much gold here that, you know, I will go back and listen to what has been such a fantastic conversation. One of those things that you said right at the end, I feel like is just so important. And it is the golden thread through this whole episode. And that is, we all have our own experience. And we can ask other people for advice, and we can listen to it. But at the end of the day, we have to really be okay with, I’ve listened to that advice. It’s, it’s, it’s great. It doesn’t sit well with me, I’m going to do my own thing. And I think we have to be okay with that, and be okay, that all of our experiences are ours and ours alone.
Chris Dufey 45:47
Absolutely. I’ve very much to incur and agree with that. And I think it’s extremely important that we at peace with what it is that we’re doing. And also we’re using our rational faculties to get to the decisions of what we’re doing. And especially as entrepreneurs, we’re understanding, what’s the business I’m running? Why do I run this business? What it is that I want to do with it, and just like, really getting to the depths of the reasons that we do this, as we go through this process. And something that I you know, it just comes up for me now as well, Sam was like, one reason why I didn’t believe that I could sell a business. And it’s something that’s come up through doing lots of psychotherapy, and to him, like, all sorts of personal development work on myself as like, I’ve struggled with feeling worthy a lot in my life. And so the thought of being able to build and sell a company, initially, I did not feel worthy of being good enough, or didn’t feel enough. And which is one reason why I wanted to write the book enough is enough. Because I think that’s the thing, because you know what, whether you sell a business or you don’t, whether you earn the amount of money that you think that you want to make, or you don’t, whatever the if you don’t achieve the things that you set out for. That’s okay. Like that, to me, like, there is an element of wanting to come to peace to that as well. Because I know for me, as much as I can be extremely, I want to achieve this, and I will make this happen. And there is an element of self love is probably the closest label, I could slap on it right now and be like, if you love yourself through the process. Shit, that’s the wind. That’s the wind right now. Do you know what I mean? And all these other things that we think our success in our modern Western culture today, pale to having self love for ourselves?
Samantha Riley 47:51
100% How do people stay connected with you, Chris so that we can keep our eye out for the launch and release of your book.
Chris Dufey 47:59
I got saved, I put too much pressure on me the books I’m going to be coming for a while that’s so good. The best place to go to CES, the Christopher do Fe podcast. The beauty about what I do now is I have nothing to sell. So everything that I do and put out to the world publicly, is really all about me wanting to answer the big questions in our lives and be able to help each of us be able to show up and do what it is that we want to do be who we want to be in these fulfilled as possible as well. Because, for me it was a case of and what I want to help other people go through is like, I want you to go beyond success and go to fulfillment. So that’s where I best do that at Christopher Dupo podcast.
Samantha Outro 48:35
Love it so much. Thank you so much for sharing just so much value in today’s episode. It’s been an absolute pleasure chatting with you.
Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Influence By Design podcast. If you want more head over to influencebydesignpodcast.com for the show notes and links to today’s gifts and sponsors. And if you’re looking to connect with other experts who are growing and scaling their business to join us in the coaches, thought leaders, and changemakers community on Facebook, the links are waiting for you over at influencebydesignpodcast.com
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