What if you’re doing all the right things to increase brand visibility and yet you’re still the worlds best kept secret, you’re not expanding your network, and you’re not reaching your ideal prospects? Although some people may argue that this is a case of under-representation, this could be due to visibility bias.
In this episode of Influence by Design, I chat with The Brand Scientist, Chloé Nwangwu about Visibility Bias: Why Showing Up May Not Be Enough To Overcome Invisibility. She uses an interesting method of incorporating science and emotions to better position a brand’s visibility.
It may seem normal for “visibility nerds” or those who know exactly what to do to increase brand visibility to get overlooked despite employing strategies that can get them noticed. The reason behind this is that society has been conditioned to under-recognise certain kinds of people and experiences.
Chloé shares The Four Phases of Visibility so you know what you can do for where you’re currently at, which is crucial to getting noticed. In each stage, she recommends systems and strategies that can effectively counter visibility bias and broaden your sphere of influence.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- The Visibility Engineering – what is it and how does Chloe use it to help clients (01:30)
- The definition of brand and branding (05:35)
- Visibility Bias – why are people being under-recognised? (12:50)
- How to make sure that people are visible (18:20)
- The Four Phases of Visibility (20:10)
- The myths and misconceptions at phase 1 (20:33)
- Different emotions and fears of people in the second phase(23:43)
- Are you a visibility nerd? (29:30)
- Tips to counteract visibility bias (39:09)
QUOTES:
- “You can do all the right things, but if they’re not happening in the right sequence, then that throws everything out of whack. So knowing what phase of visibility you happen to be in is key.” -Chloé Nwangwu
- “All great ideas need a strategy and a system to succeed, no matter how great they are.” -Chloé Nwangwu
- “Once you know the phase of visibility you’re in then you know the things you should be focusing on to expand your sphere of influence.” -Chloé Nwangwu
- “Many people feel like they’re doing all the right things and are having their confidence battered. It prevents them from moving into the next phase because they’re constantly thinking they’re not good enough.” -Samantha Riley
RESOURCES
WHERE TO FIND CHLOÉ NWANGWU
- Website: https://www.nobiworks.com/
- Instagram: http://instagram.com/nobiworks
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/nobiworks/
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ABOUT CHLOÉ NWANGWU
Chloé Nwangwu is the Brand Scientist, and the director of NobiWorks, a brand visibility consultancy rooted in behavioral science. She unabashedly believes brands and visibility strategies not built with power dynamics and biases in mind should consider the old Thanos snap treatment. That means disappear from this plane of existence, for the non-nerds. NobiWorks is in the business of equipping underrecognized brands with brand choices scientifically formulated to make them as noticeable as possible to the right people. Everything you do to be better seen, heard and understood should work. Full stop. And it is her personal mission to make that so. Most recently, she advised the first refugee delegation to the UN.
TRANSCRIPTION (AI Generated)
Chloé Nwangwu 00:00
View mapped out your network visually, the various shapes that you see it take are going to really key for you being able to neutralize diffuse however you want to put it, visibility biases. And that’s because different network shapes facilitate different kinds of goals.
Samantha Riley 00:24
Welcome to the Influence By Design Podcast. I’m Samantha Riley, authority positioning strategist for coaches and experts. If you’re ready to build a business that gives you more than just a caffeine addiction, and you dream of making more money, having more time, and having the freedom to be living your best life, then you’re in the right place, it’s time to level up.
Welcome to today’s episode of Influence By Design, I’m your host Samantha Riley. And I’m very excited to be chatting with Chloé Nwangwu. Today, we’re going to be talking about visibility and specifically visibility bias, which I have not dived into on this podcast before. But when I met her a at a networking event, that it was an online networking event because we’re on opposite sides of the world. She straight away, got my attention, and I just knew that I had to have her on the show. So Chloé welcome to Influence By Design. It’s great to have you here.
Chloé Nwangwu
Thank you so much for having me.
Samantha Riley
Brands and visibility is your jam. We had a huge conversation before we started recording. And both of us said, Actually, we’ve just got to press record, otherwise, we’re gonna be chatting all day. I love how nerdy you are, with all this stuff. This is gonna be great. Brands were often taught, and we know are very much based on emotion, when people buy through emotion, but you have got this, I guess, backing up of science, and this really, really interests me in bringing the emotion and the science together. Yeah, just tell us a little bit about the kind of work that you do just to give us some context into what we’re talking about today. Yeah, absolutely.
Chloé Nwangwu 02:09
Yeah, absolutely. So when I’m working with, you know, coaches, consultants, that sort of thing, folks that I call my soloists, right, they tend to be dealing with one of two issues. Either they are out there in these internet streets, right, doing all the things, they are on social media, everywhere, all at once they are writing to the right publications, they are networking their butts off. And yet, they’re still not getting as far as some of their other peers are doing the same things. Right. And so they’ll see a colleague get huge kudos or huge accolades, or how many even put this more predictability right in their clientele because of their visibility work them they are getting, despite the fact you know, they’re doing the same things, it does not compute, it becomes intensely frustrating for them, right. I mean, I’ve heard one folk that I personally spoke to recently was like, I just need to calm myself. That’s it, that’s all I just have to call myself, that’s the only way that this is going to work, I need to have two or three of me. And so that’s one group of people, right, they tend to be a little further along in their visibility journey. And then we have the folks who are a little bit earlier on and they are dealing with trying to get attention to their work in the first place. Right. They’re not quite sure how to do it. They’re hearing a lot of things for a lot of different people. And at the same time, they’re also trying to pinpoint their genius and make it visible for other people and make it legible to other people as well. Right. And that can be a really confusing process, while you’re also trying to run a business at the same time, right? Yeah, so those tend to be the two things that folks are coming to me for. And the approach that I use I all my methodology, visibility engineering, because I am the nerdiest of all nerds. Visibility engineering really has two sort of key pieces to it, right? There’s the first piece which is impression management, right? That’s the thing that when we’re talking about brands, and branding, and marketing, and the like we’re all really familiar with, right? If we can influence the ways in which we are perceived, then chances are very high than we think that we can get the outcomes that we want, right? So there’s an impression management, but then there’s this other piece, right, which comes straight from network science and behavioral science and a whole bunch of other things that I am in love with. And this piece of focuses on expanding your sphere of influence, right and doing that intentionally over time with a consistent routine, something that you know, every day what you are doing to expand your sphere of influence and what that looks like, for you and your goals, right?
Samantha Riley 05:15
I love that you are the nerdiest of nerds, you are very welcome here. Because I am I also put myself in the same category. So this, this interview could go anywhere, I have a feeling. You talk about brands, you talk about visibility. How would you define a brand? Just before we get started? I really want to make sure that context is just right here. Yeah, yeah, you’ve got your graphic designers that define a brand by your logo and your colors. And then you’ve got your people that, that define a brand. As you know what people are saying about you, when you’re not in the room? There’s so many different ways that people will explain a brand. What’s your definition?
Chloé Nwangwu 05:56
Yeah, yeah, this is, I love this question. This is one of my favorite questions. And also, it is even just as you were describing the things that different people say a brand is like, I felt like anxiety was up in my body, like, No, it’s not wrong. So quick, with science, back to lesson on brands and branding. So a brand, from a scientific perspective is simply a system of ideas that influences the behavior of other people. Said another way, it’s a kind or a type of influential real estate in someone’s head. And we come to that, because when you look at the human mind, and all of the ideas and memories that make it up that lovely constellation, right? That’s really all that it is, right? every idea, every concept is really just sort of a cluster or a constellation of these various stars, these various memories and ideas, right. And so a brand is really just a very specific kind of constellation within this network of memories and ideas. So that’s how I define a brand. And so then when we go on to define branding, which is really what you know, graphic designers and other folks are talking about when they’re talking about a brand branding. Those are just some brands, assets, right? And if we’re talking about changing behavior, or influencing behavior, at the very least at the bare minimum, those assets need to be memorable, right? Because, you know, they need to remember you in order for you to change their behavior in any way. Right. And so so those are the two definitions, right? Branding, it’s a brand’s memorable brand assets. Those could be the logo, the color choices, the messaging, the sense that are associated with a brand, the textures, the jingles that, you know, all sorts of the whole
Samantha Riley 08:07
gamut. Yeah, the whole gamut is people that are visual, there’s people that are auditory kinesthetic, auditory, digital, absolute. And if we want to make sure that we’re memorable, what I’m hearing you say is, we need to cover all of these aspects to get the absolute so they were memorable for people that are different. Yeah, I can’t give you another way to say that that wasn’t related very well.
Chloé Nwangwu 08:33
I said no, it was so beautifully said do not even downplay that. That was so beautifully said. And that’s actually a key part of the impression management part of visibility engineering, right? That you want a brand’s memorable assets, right to be as neuro rich as possible. And one of the easiest shortcuts for getting there is multisensory, right. So if you can get a jingle, do that, if you can have a scent associated with you do that, right. In fact, I’m gonna go back to the jingle idea because sound first of all, I believe it is our fastest sense. Oh, I think it’s our fastest sense. I did not know that. Yeah, I think it’s our fastest sense. It’s not the one that we rely on the most, that tends to be visual, but sound is our fastest sense, right? And it’s also woozley underutilized when it comes to branding. So there’s a lot less competition for memorability as far as that particular modality of census is concerned. Right. So that’s get a jingle right. Get a Jake from State Farm. I don’t know if you’ve seen these commercials. They do them in America where? Okay, so StateFarm is this insurance company, right? And once upon a time, I want to say like maybe in the early 2000s They had this ad where they There is this man who’s like standing in his living room in the middle of the night. And he’s kind of talking like a little bit like a creep. He’s like, Oh, yeah, that sounds really good. Yeah. And you’re like, Oh, what is happening here? And his wife comes downstairs. And he’s like, What are you doing? You know, like, Oh, I knew you were cheating on me that sort of thing. He was Oh, no. Same voice. His voice doesn’t change, like, oh, no, I’m just, I’m talking to State Farm the insurance guys. They just got me a really great deal. And, and she was like, I don’t believe you who’s on the phone. And the guy on the phone. He goes, Oh, I’m, I’m Jake from State Farm. And she goes, Okay, what are you wearing Jake from State Farm. And then we switch over to Jake in his office. And he’s like, in his, you know, State Bar uniform. And he’s like, khakis, right. Like, that’s the end of the commercial. Right. And this happened years ago, and people remembered it. And I don’t know if they got a brand scientists or whatever on board, because they then brought back like 1015 20 years later. Jake from State Farm. Ah, yeah, they handed him off to like, a younger, like, cooler version of himself, right? Like, there was this adorable man of color, who’s now playing Jake from State Farm. And he’s going like, he’s going to a whole bunch of different places talking to different people. And he’s always like, Yeah, I’m Jake from State Farm. I can get you you know, it’s beautiful. It’s so good branding. That’s so good. My
Samantha Riley 11:29
husband and I were driving in the car a few weeks ago, and we heard an ad on mainstream mate radio, but the background music both of us straightaway said, that’s the intro for such and such as podcast.
Chloé Nwangwu 11:44
Exactly, exactly. Right. And I actually had a similar reaction, actually, with the actor who plays Jake from state bomb, which is hilarious. I saw him in another movie, like a movie somewhere. Right? Or like the reaction to a movie or something. And I was like, is that GQ sci fi? Like I literally said this out loud. And it was in. And that’s another reason that you know, when folks try to, you know, bring on celebrities, or have a celebrity who’s already associated with another brand, and that sort of thing. That’s a mistake. So anyway, that’s another point. But
Samantha Riley 12:20
yeah, yes. Let’s talk about visibility bias, because you’ve talked about people being overlooked, even though they’re doing all the right things. You call them visibility nerds, they know all the things to do. They’re doing all the things out, and it’s still not happening. Can you talk to us a little bit about why like, what’s really going on here? Yeah, absolutely.
Chloé Nwangwu 12:45
So they are being underrecognized? I will say that just will stop, right. And when I say underrecognized, most people will, will say, Oh, no, no, like, these folks are underrepresented, right? Like that’s something that folks will say, in fact, I actually have a piece that just came out at Harvard business review where I talked about this, and I’m like, No, it’s not underrepresented. It’s under recognized. Right? And the reason for that is this. When we look at what’s happening, cognitively in the brain, like what processes are running, right, we see that we, as a society, have actually been conditioned to overlook certain kinds of people and experiences. And so that’s women, people of color, women of color, queer folk, any combination of those three things that you can imagine any other permutation of underrecognized that you can imagine, right? So when I talk about visibility biases, I’m talking about a subset of actual cognitive biases, cognitive shortcuts, right? Or learned brain chemistry that literally shaped the ways in which we see the world. And a really good example, is something called the racial attention deficit. Actually, this is not one that I discovered, but it was out of some research that was done in 2021. And this study was great. It was limited but large, right. And so it was limited in that it dealt only with white Americans and black Americans. We know there are lots of different, you know, worlds. Yeah, yeah. But that’s what it dealt with, right. And what they were able to empirically demonstrate is that white Americans are 33% more likely to overlook their black peers. And that’s even when they’ve been incentivized to pay attention to those peers. And when they know that those peers have some knowledge or information that can help them with a pressing problem, right, what folks in our industry may call like brands aliens, right? Both of those things are true that deficit of attention is 33%. And that’s happening to all of us. Right? Yeah. Like this sort of we all sort of exist on this spectrum of the extent to which we are underrecognized. Right. But this is happening to all of us, right. And so in a lot of ways, it’s, I mean, sometimes it can be malicious. I’m not gonna, I’m not that right. But often it’s unconscious, right? Because it’s sort of how we’ve been conditioned to be. So those are, what visibility biases are. And the way that ends up connecting to these clients, who are sort of visibility nerds, right? On the one hand, right. This is why they’re getting overlooked, as opposed to their peers who aren’t dealing with the same visibility biases, or dealing with visibility biases at all. Right? And so, visibility biases aren’t serving us that, like I said, right, that corrosive element that’s eating away at all of their hard work, right, as like it is for the folks who tend to come by me. Right. So that’s one thing. The second thing that’s even more maybe subtle, is that all of the tactics and strategies that we developed over time in the brand, strategy, branding, marketing, advertising, and all of the adjacent worlds, right, are based on visibility biases, they just sort of assume, like a resting level of attention, I might say, right, they assume that everyone just gets the same amount of attention as a default. Now that we know that that’s not true. We also know why some of these tactics and strategies may not work as well, for underrecognized, folks, right? So it’s that double whammy, right there.
Samantha Riley 16:51
This makes so much sense. Because that’s why we see so many, you know, white, six foot males in the in the old rooms, you know, CEOs, we all know that it’s a thing. Yeah. But then how do we actually do something with this, and this is now you know, we’re not going to solve this on today’s podcast, booking unfortunately, I’d love to.
Chloé Nwangwu 17:18
We would need more time.
Samantha Riley 17:20
More time. And when we’re talking about branding, I know that from a lot of the coaches or mentors that I’ve worked with, this is something that I’ve unpacked over many years saying, I can notice your teaching me this way. Now. I can see it works for you. And I know, it doesn’t work for others, and in exactly what you’re talking about. Right? Yeah. So I guess, what can we solve in this episode? What can we share with people as to? What can they do to make sure that they are visible that they are noticed?
Chloé Nwangwu 18:01
Yeah, yeah. So one of the first things that I tend to have my clients do is a diagnostic that will let them know what phase of visibility they happen to be in, right? Because once you know, the phase with visibility you’re in, then you know, what things you should be focusing on as far as expanding your sphere of influence is concerned, right? And what things you can lead to later, right. And this is actually a problem that I’ve seen affect the folks that we spoke about who are sort of earlier on in the journey, right? That they will be reaching for and attempting and pulling off beautifully, usually, tactics and strategies from phases that are ahead of them. But because that’s not the phase of visibility, they happen to be in, they don’t work for them, right? They don’t do the job, right, they don’t do the necessary things. And so that’s just sort of a bit of the, you can do all the right things. But if they’re not happening in the right sequence, then that throws everything out of whack. And so knowing what phase of visibility you happen to be in is really key. So I’ll break this down a little bit. So there are four phases of disability. Starting from the earliest, there is sort of what I call the stuck phase. Then there’s the reactive phase. There’s the staple phase. And then there’s the magnetic phase. Now, folks, who are I want to say folks who are in the stuck phase, there is this myth that they believe right? That it’s almost like because my ideas and my work aren’t getting the attention and recognition. that I expect that they should be that is a reflection on the quality of this idea, right? This idea is not as great as I think it is, right? Or I’m not as great as I thought I was, right? It’s one of those two things. Sometimes it’s a combination of the two. Right? So that’s something that folks who are in the stuck zone tend to be battling with to be struggling with, right, because they’re finding grinding, grinding. And it’s like, you know, screaming into a void. For months, there’s no escape, right? So that’s, that’s the stuck phase,
Samantha Riley 20:39
I find that people in that phase are really having their confidence battered, and it prevents them from moving into the next phase, because they’re constantly thinking I’m not good enough.
Chloé Nwangwu 20:51
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Or this idea needs to change or be refined or updated. Or I need to add more, more and more and more more. Yes, idea, because it’s not impressive enough, the way it is clearly. Right. And that’s just not true. Right? That is not true. More often than not, you know, it’s just, there’s a strategy or a system or something that’s lacking, right, like, all great ideas need a strategy and a system to succeed, no matter how great they are. Right? Yeah, yeah. And so that tends to be the thing that’s missing for folks run in the stock phase, right? Then there’s the reactive phase, and I find actually, that most folks tend to fall into. Well, most folks that I work with, maybe I’ll say, most folks tend to fall into either the reactive with the stable base, right. With the reactive phase, a common experience is, well, sort of like I brought up before, they’re still sort of working through what their thing is, right? The obvious reason that people should choose them are like a visible distinction or an ink on their invisible genius, as it were, like, they’re still working through this process. And when they talk to folks about their thing, it doesn’t seem to be landing or like, sometimes it lands and sometimes it doesn’t land, right. And they’re just like, what is it like? What am I doing wrong? Right. Another experience that I find is common is sometimes with folks, it’ll be that their, their body of work is so huge, that they don’t even know where to begin. Right? Yeah, they’re wading through all of this incredible in the future will be intellectual property, right? Yeah. Right now they’re wading through all of this stuff. And they have no idea which facet of this body of work is going to be the thing that captures the attention of the folks that they need to be tied like working with right now. Right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Samantha Riley 22:58
I see this all the time. Yeah. All the time. Right. Yeah.
Chloé Nwangwu 23:01
Yeah. So here’s another thing that I tend to notice for folks in the reactors. These folks feel ready for primetime. Right? Like they’re like, put me on TV. Everyone should know me. Right. But at the same time, they may also be grappling with this fear of being seen. Right? Like, what happens, like, what happens if that happens, right? Yeah, what happens if I get seen right? Like, is it safe? So and this can extend from like, slight doubt? So like, oh, maybe like, I’m pretty sure my ideas are really good, right? Like, I’m pretty sure, right? Like, yeah, with bullying, fear about. It’s not safe for me to be visible. I know, I need to be visible in order for my stuff to work. But like I it’s not safe. It’s not safe for me. Right? And so they’ll go through these really high highs and low low periods, I might say, right, where, when they’re high, they’re like, Yep, I’m visible. I feel strong. I can do this. And then when they’re low, they like, sometimes they’ll I’ve had clients with panic attacks, right? Yeah. And so all of these things, this is a pretty big phase. Right? So all of these things can be happening. Sometimes, sometimes folks go through all these three things, but in sequence, right. So that’s the reactive phase. Let me give you an example of a client that I worked with, right. So she was an interesting client in that she, I mean, like, most of my clients, like all my clients will say, brilliant, right? He was in her first year of business, but she had come from like a very high level consulting firm, like McKinsey type place, right? Yeah. And before that, it was Harvard Business School. You know what I mean? Like that kind of pedigree, right? So like, her being in her first year of business was really like in air quotes, right? Yeah. And when she came to me, we were having a visibility chat. And these visibility chats, I don’t quite do these anymore. Instead, I’ll do a visibility clinic, which is just like a q&a, right instead, so more people can come. And so we were doing this visibility chat, and she was sharing with me like some of the stuff she was struggling with. And I remember we got to the end of our call, and it was like, she seems fine. Like, I like I gave her a little bit of advice. And I was like, okay, you know what, like, I’m happy to introduce you to like some coastal podcasts that I know, editors from some publications that I know that you’re like your people are reading, maybe some folks who are, you know, have groups that might be helpful to you. And she was like, oh, like, thank you so much. That’s great. But
Samantha Riley 25:51
I was waiting for that.
Chloé Nwangwu 25:53
What do you mean, email? But he don’t even know. Like what I would talk about if I was there. Right. So this is one of the cases where she’s got this excellent body of work. And like, I’ve seen it before, right? Like I’ve seen her work before and look through it. And it’s excellent. Like, this is beautiful work, right. And so that was super surprising to me. I was like, oh, okay, interesting, say more about this. And it turned out that her concern was that she did not know how she would distinguish herself from other folks who are doing something similar to her. And so she’s like, I almost don’t want to waste these opportunities. Yes, if I don’t have this piece in place yet? Uh huh. Uh huh. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. Well, let’s fix it. And so we did. And that’s, you know, maybe another story for another day. But that’s a really great example of somebody who was in the reactive zone, right? And also not the typical kind of person that like, we listed all these characteristics. And folks were like, Oh, I know the kind of person right? Nope, this person, Jessica, who was beautiful client, right. Jessica was also in the reactive zone. Right? So yeah, so that’s the React.
Samantha Riley 27:17
Perfect sense. Let’s talk about folks there in the stable zone.
Chloé Nwangwu 27:23
Yeah, this is one of my favorites. Because the visibility nerds tend to be here, this is where they tend to be. And so the tip zone, they also believe a myth. And this myth is that, because I have popular offerings, and, you know, consistent or semi consistent income, an engaged audience, right? Like, because I have all of these things. I’m secure. But that’s not security. That’s stability. Security is stability across time. And so what I tend to see is that when there was like a crazy big shift in the environment, I don’t know a pandemic, you know, like, really low economic sentiment, for some reason that shall be nameless, you know, right, when like, something like that happens, I’m trying to think of like some, like a less alarming example.
Samantha Riley 28:25
Well, let’s face it, we’re in that phase, so let’s just stick with this.
Chloé Nwangwu 28:31
Right. So like when something major shifts in your environment, all of that scaffolding that you built up, in this particular sort of frame of reference, most of them if not all of them start to fail you one by one. And suddenly the messaging that was picture perfect. Is it landing the way that it used to suddenly, like your group program is drying up? Right? Suddenly, you’re having maybe the same amount of sales calls but sure are closing for whatever reason, right? So I was working with another wonderful client, and it was to Mira. And she up until reaching out to me, I’d been like a social justice advocate, sort of on the ground doing the work, like doing really excellent work. And she had recently been appointed as the executive director of this really big deal, nonprofit in DC, right in Washington, DC. So this wasn’t necessarily the pandemic or like low economic sentiment, but it was still a huge shift in her environment. And so all of the stuff that to Mira knew how to talk about right when it came to this work that she was doing, which is the same work that this or deposition was doing, by the way, right? All of that stuff suddenly didn’t quite anymore given her new role. So now that she’s the executive director, there are certain ways that she needs to talk about things, certain frames of reference certain angles or facets that she needs to not only be aware of, but speak from, there’s a new set of stakeholders she needs to be aware of, and a new set of psychologies that she needs to take into account, right. Like there’s a whole new context for her to deal with. And when she came to me, she was sort of like, I’m a good speaker. I am good at articulating myself. I have great ideas. I know what I’m doing. I’ve been in this world for 20 plus years. But in this new role, it just, it feels like something’s not quite right, something doesn’t quite fit. And I was like, Okay, well, let’s, let’s talk about it. Let’s explore it. And what we ended up doing for her is putting together a really flexible communication system for her right, something that could adjust regardless of the environment that she happens to find herself in, right. And that’s the kind of thing that you want, right? That’s sort of the secret of the stable phase, right? That when you understand that security is actually stability across time, you then also realize that in order to reach security, you want to be hyper relevant, maybe I’ll say, but like, hyper relevant, in any context, you might find yourself in not just the one that you’re in now, not just you were in five years ago, but any ones that may come down the pike in 510 on yours. Right. And that is security. Yeah. And so putting together a system for her that allows her to do that. Right. Was she was like, yep, amazing. Thank you so much. I’m ready. Done. Exactly. Amazing, yummy thing. I’m amazing. We love it. Good day, right. And so, so that’s the stable phase, right? Where it’s not that there’s like this big learning, deficiency or anything, right? It’s just often that like, context is switched. environment is different, right. And so we got to figure out how to, you know, work within your new context, of course, but also make sure that you’re not surprised by another shift again, right, that next time the next shift comes, you’re prepared to need it? Because it will, it will come? It will come inevitably it will come right. Yeah. And this is also where visibility biases become really interesting and really important, right? Because when you’re at that, like that upper, maybe 30% of like, visibility nerdiness. Right. Right. Like when you’re at that level, there are so few things that you’re not doing right already. That the effects of visibility biases almost becomes disproportionate. That makes sense, right? Because your work? Yeah, work should be in like the 99th percentile, right? Your work can be like 1% of the world maybe is better at you than what you are currently doing right now. Right to be visible and all those things. But the results are nowhere near that. much visibility biases talking.
Samantha Riley 33:37
So yeah, yeah. And then we’ve got the magnetic phase.
Chloé Nwangwu 33:41
Yeah, magnetic phase, which I love. The magnetic phase is like, you’ve arrived, baby. This is I’m Beyonce. I am Rihanna. This is the brand equity phase, right? You are closing brand equity in this space. And when I say brand equity, I mean that in all senses of the word, right? I mean, in the very technical jargony word where, you know, more and more people are becoming aware of you as a air quotes brand name, right? And you’re building more and more of that. I mean, equity as an equalities, bigger, badder sister, right? Because like you’re making the world a better place at the same time, right? I mean, all of those things, right? That’s what’s happening in the magnetic phase, right? Because you’ve sort of mastered hyper relevance across contexts. You’ve mastered knowing which facet of your body of work to reflect, depending on which stakeholder you’re talking to, or which context you bind yourself in, right? So you understand like the, I call it your N factor or notability factor, right? Like that piece of your body of work, that your folks are going to find the most interesting, like the obvious reason folks will pick you, right? You understand that really concretely? That’s kind of what we worked on with Jessica who were talking about before. And you’ve got a system in place like a flexible, adaptable system in place that allows you to sort of systematize, all of that, so that you can, in fact, clone yourself.
Samantha Riley 35:17
Which is where we all want to be. Exactly. I want to link this all together before we wrap this up. Yeah. At any of these stages, the start the reactive, the stable phase, it sounds like it’s not happening so much at the magnetic phase, meaning, what do we need to do? And this is super high level here. What do we need to do to counteract these visibility biases?
Chloé Nwangwu 35:44
Good question. Good question. So the first thing that I will say is that the shape of your network is going to be a very big deal. And when I say shape, I literally mean the geometric shape. I literally mean that if you mapped out your network, visually, the various shapes that you see it take are going to really key for you being able to neutralize diffuse, however, you want to put it as ability biases. And that’s because different network shapes facilitate different kinds of goals, different kinds of spheres of influence, maybe I would say, right, are spheres of influence with different focuses, right. And so, for example, when you’re in the reactive base, let’s say, right, when you’re in the reactive phase, like I mentioned before, folks in the space are sort of like, Okay, put me on TV, right, like, get let me out. But let me ask them, right, when really, at this point, they want to be focusing on sort of downloading their brand. Mm hmm. And in order to do that, they need to do it in the sort of community that will help that body of work or that brand grow. But also won’t crush it with criticism. You know what I mean? Because it’s a very delicate phase. Yes, a very delicate phase, right. And so what that means is that often things like group programs and masterminds and that sort of thing, right? These tend to be great if you’re in the reactive phase, right? Because this gives you a safe place to build your body of work, right? Or to fine tune your brand. And it also gives you a closely knit, and I’ll say this with air quotes, because it depends on the program, how closely knit you are, but you are, in fact, more visible to this particular group of people who are watching your brand grow. Right? So these are gonna be some of the people who will be the foundation of your network moving forward. Right? These are some of the people who two years from now, you’ll reach out to them for an introduction to that one podcaster, right, or that one editor, right. And in doing so, you’ll be able to avoid or work around some of the visibility biases that you would face if you attempted to meet that person head on, or address that person head on. Right? Yeah. And so. So what your network looks like in the reactive phase, right, with all of these sort of closely clustered groups that are loosely connected to each other, right, that’s going to facilitate that kind of environment, where there are people who are really in the know as far as your brand is concerned, who are really on board as far as your success is concerned. And when that particular phase of your lives live, your life is done, are going to be going off to like their own various networks, where you then have contacts and informants and sources and that sort of thing. Right. So, so that’s one thing, right? So in the reactive zone, focus on downloading your brand, and a community or a couple a few communities like this, right? Focus on cultivating those relationships in these networks focus on being visible in these networks, right, rather than being visible outside focus on being visible in newsgroups. Right. That’s what that looks like. And the reality is, in the staples zone, things look a little different, right? Because you got the brand has downloaded, right? Like all that is behind you. underneath you. It’s the foundation. It’s You’re doing great, right? And so it’s at this point that you’re focusing on strategic attention. And what this means is that the shape of your network is going to have to change. Uh huh. And the reason for that is because your goal has changed. At this point, you are looking to, frankly, start changing some behaviors, right? Whether or not that means more people buying now, whether that means more invitations to bigger and bigger and bigger stages, you know, whatever that happens to mean for you, right? You’re looking to change some behaviors from folks who would have said, No or overlooked you or ignored you before, to folks who are saying yes. And in order to facilitate that kind of behavior change, the network has changed, the network shape has to be different. And so what that looks like is, I think the one thing that I would say is start introducing the folks in your network to each other. Yes, start introducing, so important now, start doing that, and doing that as often as you can. Because you’re going to find that that builds your network towards the shape a literal geometric shape, that’s going to facilitate actual behavior change at scale, quickly, right. This is the shape that’s going to make it happen fast. And this is the shape that’s going to ensure that happens, right? And so that’s what I would say about those sort of two key phases. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. With the stuck phase, that’s a little more tricky, because it frankly, it depends. Yeah, it really, it really depends on what the person is going through what kind of business they have, what sort of collection of visibility biases they’re dealing with, why they’re in the sixth zone, right, which is a whole other diagnostic way to write. So there’s, there’s a lot that goes into figuring out what that happens to look like in the Suboxone. But at least for those two other key phases. That’s generally what that looks like.
Samantha Riley 41:58
Yeah. Oh, my God, I love this so much. You definitely are the nerdiest nerd, this is so cool. Chi for people that are listening, and they’re really eating this up, and they want to learn more, you’ve got a training that you’ve got a free training that you’re offering to deep dive a little bit more into this. Yeah, I’d love you to share where people can get that.
Chloé Nwangwu 42:23
Yeah, absolutely. So I’m sure we can leave a link, but I have the video training. That’s a little diagnostic that will take you through understanding and figuring out which phase the disability happened to be in. So by the end of it, you’ll know what phase you’re in. And what that means for you moving forward, right? The video is like on Vimeos wrestle, like, I’ll have to give you an actual link, but
Samantha Riley 42:45
we will definitely pop that link in the show notes over influenced by design podcast.com. Yeah, so that you can get a copy of that. Like I said, the link will be in the show notes. So just Yeah, wherever you are right now, just scroll down and the link will be there so you can get access to that video training. Yeah. And for people that want to connect with you, how can they do that?
Chloé Nwangwu 43:07
Yeah, so I’ve got three primary ways, right? If you’re someone who’s sort of like, I have a lot of questions, right? Well, I have these visibility clinics that I do every month. And they’re essentially just these Q and A’s for Hidden Figures and underrecognized brands of all shapes and sizes. Right? So if you have questions, join us in the q&a, I will answer them. If you can’t make it to the recording or the live version, that’s totally fine. Send in the question ahead of time, and I will answer it on the recording. So that’s one way to get your questions answered and connect with me directly. Another way, if you are someone who’s listening to this, and you’re like, nope, visibility biases on my problem, I don’t need to hear any more. What do I do next? Then I suggest that you sign up for a visibility prescription. This is one of my favorite things to do. We’ll have you take a diagnostic. And then you’ll get to talk with me one on one. And I will help you prioritize your top three most important next steps based off of that diagnostic moving forward even if those next steps aren’t with me, right? And if you don’t feel like you’re ready for either of those things, but you’re just sort of like very much on the nerd train. You’re like what? Nerd club? Yes, more than I have a nerd list where, honestly, it’s the first place that I share any new research that I’m doing any new pieces that have come out that might be interesting or relevant. So join the nerd list and you’ll be able to keep in touch me that way. Otherwise, it’s the usual stuff, Instagram, LinkedIn, you can find me there and connect. Yeah,
Samantha Riley 44:40
beautiful. And of course, all of those links will be in the show notes, either down below or over implements by design podcast, CO a, it’s been an absolute pleasure speaking with you today. If there was one thing that you’d like to leave our listeners with today about this topic. What would that one little golden nugget pay
Chloé Nwangwu 45:02
Oh, that’s a good question. Remember that you are under recognized. Right? And so that means that you can be doing all of the right things and still be right where you are. In fact, the question that I will ask is, what is your doing everything right? That’s what I’ll leave folks with. What if you’re doing everything right?
Samantha Riley 45:26
And that right there is so powerful, because as entrepreneurs, we can really get on top of ourselves thinking we’re not good enough. Everything’s not working. What we’re doing is not working. But what if it was? What if it’s just a couple of little pieces that you need to quickly? It’s like the glue that brings everything together. Yeah. Hi, thank you so much for coming and joining us today. It’s been an absolute pleasure.
Chloé Nwangwu 45:52
Thank you for having me. It’s been a blast, honestly. Absolutely.
Samantha Riley 40:20
Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Influence By Design podcast. If you want more head over to influencebydesignpodcast.com for the show notes and links to today’s gifts and sponsors. And if you’re looking to connect with other experts who are growing and scaling their business to join us in the coaches, thought leaders, and changemakers community on Facebook, the links are waiting for you over at influencebydesignpodcast.com
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