Marketing shouldn’t feel like yelling into the abyss. But how do you attract engagement, not just eyeballs?
If you’re tired of putting in the work and still feeling invisible, today Danielle Bornowski joins Samantha to share exactly why engagement is the missing piece in your visibility strategy.
We’re diving deep into why so many business owners are “seen” but not actually getting results, and how to confidently sell without feeling like a pushy salesperson.
Plus, we’re breaking down the underestimated power of client reviews – how to collect them without awkwardness, and why they’re absolute gold for your business growth.
Marketing doesn’t have to feel slimy. By showing up authentically, creating real connections, and getting strategic about your visibility, you can turn engagement into actual results.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- Why showing up inconsistently keeps you invisible (01:55)
- How to ask for the sale without feeling slimy (04:38)
- What is permission-based marketing, and why is it so important? (05:51)
- Why business owners hesitate to ask for the sale (06:42)
- The simplest (yet most overlooked) way to have people notice you (09:53)
- Authenticity vs. trends (12:03)
- A simple but powerful way to determine if you should push through discomfort or walk away (13:22)
- The essentials of a great marketing strategy (15:38)
- How client reviews sell for you without lifting a finger (17:28)
- Asking for reviews the right way (20:47)
- The #1 marketing habit you need (25:44)
RESOURCES
Danielle’s client review toolkit: https://dqbstrategies.marketing/reviews
QUOTES
- “The thing that makes sales slimy is when you don’t have permission to sell. That’s the biggest distinction.” – Danielle Bornowski
- “Lean into where you are able to most confidently show up, and where your zone of genius is.” – Samantha Riley
- “Just pick one small thing that can turn into a habit and snowball into more growth for your marketing and your business.” – Danielle Bornowski
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BOOK A BUSINESS ACCELERATOR CALL
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Uncover the #1 thing holding you back from not being booked as an industry leader
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CONNECT WITH SAMANTHA RILEY
Facebook: Samantha Riley
Instagram: @thesamriley
LinkedIn: Samantha Riley
Twitter: @thesamriley
ABOUT DANIELLE BORNOWSKI
Danielle Bornowski is a marketing strategist who helps women make smart marketing decisions. She has more than 13 years of experience helping businesses and nonprofits grow their brand. Danielle’s superpower is helping you confidently connect with the people you serve best so you can expand your impact in the world.
WHERE TO FIND DANIELLE BORNOWSKI
- Website: https://dqbstrategies.marketing/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellebornowski/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dqbstrategies/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dqbstrategies
- Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@dqbstrategies
TRANSCRIPTION
Samantha Riley 0:02
Danielle, welcome to today’s episode of Influence by Design. Today we’re going to talk about how you can show up and be visible so that you can get more engagement and more conversions in your business. And today, Danielle Bornowski is joining me. So welcome, Danielle. It’s great to have you here.
Danielle Bornowski 0:19
So glad to be here with you today.
Samantha Riley 0:24
It’s a bit exciting. We had a little chat beforehand. You’re getting ready for a very big fundraiser this evening, and there’s a scurry of activity happening down below. So it’s fabulous to have you here. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about what’s going on there?
Danielle Bornowski 0:38
Yeah. So I’m a member of the Junior League of Austin, and we are the largest women’s service organisation in Austin. And so in honor of March being Women’s History Month, we have brought together the best chefs and wine and spirit purveyors that are females in the Austin area, and they’re bringing tasty treats, like their best stuff to our event tonight, and so guests get to walk around and sample from the best restaurants and the best breweries and the best wineries, all this amazing food and drinks and it just, it’s all to for a great cause, of course, and so much fun to do.
Samantha Riley 1:13
I think this is fabulous. I love it so much. Let’s talk about marketing and showing up, not just to be seen, but I think that the really important thing now is engagement. Because there’s so many people that are posting on social media and sending emails out, it’s taking up a lot of time for them, and they’re not getting any engagement. It’s almost like they’re the world’s best kept secret. So can you share some of the mistakes that business owners are making that means that they’re kind of being seen, but they’re not getting that engagement that they’re looking for.
Danielle Bornowski 1:55
Absolutely. So, you know, I think everyone can relate to being sold to by a slimy salesperson, right? We’re all trying to avoid that used car salesman, you know, effort or persona when we are selling in our business. But as business owners and leaders, we still have, we do have to sell in order to, you know, keep moving things along. And so, so there’s this uncomfortable place of I know I need to sell and I don’t want to be salesy. And so what ends up happening is that, for the most part, people just don’t show up, and they don’t or they don’t do it. They’ll post once or twice, and hope, you know, it’s kind of a quiet post, and they hope that, you know, the whole, everybody just starts knocking on the door, and that’s just not the case, because we are bombarded as consumers with so many messages a day that one tiny little, you know, knock or touch point isn’t typically going to do the job. And so one of the biggest mistakes I see is, is that, is the not showing up in a confident way to say, you have a problem, I have this solution. Let’s work together to fix it, and life is going to be great again, or life is going to be great afterwards. The other thing is, as we try to avoid those slimy sales, the thing about, the thing that makes sales slimy is when you don’t have permission to sell. And so that’s the biggest distinction. And so when I’m talking to clients, you know, if they are just, yeah, blasting out emails or blasting out content that’s just like, you know, hey, I’ve got this product, hey, I’ve got this service. Hey, there’s new, this new offer. Buy from me. Buy from me. Buy from me. Unless you had a very specific opt-in that said I’m going to send you stuff all the time, this marketing material, people, that’s not what people want, right? They didn’t sign up for that. So, when you ask permission and say, can I talk to you about this? Or do you want to know more? That’s when you’re avoiding being slimy. Now, how do you get to that point where you can ask for that is you show up and you start a relationship, instead of showing up somewhere and being like, I want to walk out with a sale right now. This is a prospective client, and I want to walk out with new business. When you show up and say, develop a relationship with this person, you take the pressure off of yourself, and you show up in a much different energy that they feel and they respond to.
So instead of you being like, you know, them saying, It’s great to meet you. What do you do? And you’re like, Oh, I do this and this and this and this and this, and you can sign up right now. Oh my gosh. I’m like, looking across the room trying to make eye contact with somebody to be like, come rescue me from this person who’s just like, yelling at me about the things that they do. But let’s say you introduced yourself at a networking event, and, you know, so they say, What do you do? And you say, you know how, I’ll use myself as an example. Like, you know how there’s a, there are a million pieces of advice out there from a marketing perspective, and they all sound good, but you don’t, you can’t do them all at once, right? And you’re not sure if it’s the right thing for your business. And they’re like, yeah. Like, I’m a marketing strategist, and I help people pick the right strategies to help grow their business. And that point people, kind of lean in. They’re like, tell me more about that. That is right there. Or how do you do that? That’s then giving me permission to talk more about my business. And so that’s that distinction right there is, is starting a casual conversation that’s built, intended to build a relationship, and then you can start to sell when you’ve got that relationship and permission.
Samantha Riley 5:51
I love that so much. Just thinking about that permission and that building a relationship. Because, you know, many years ago, Gary Vaynerchuk came out with the, what is it? Jab, jab, jab, right hook, which is essentially, you know, you’re talking about that problem, solution, problem, solution. And then you’re getting the, you know, it’s okay, then to make the sale, what I see is a lot of people doing the jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, because they’re too afraid to do that right hook, because there is that idea of, I don’t want to be that slimy salesperson. You talked about being confident with that problem and solution. How can you get the confidence to talk about that? Is it just about knowing the framework? Can you speak into that a little bit?
Danielle Bornowski 6:42
Yes. So the thing to remember is that if you’ve gotten to that point where you are able to connect with someone and nurture so they’ve followed you on social, or they’ve signed up for their newsletter, they have expressed interest in what you have to say, and you are the expert in your field. So a lot of times, I think we get nervous that we’re going to be called out, you know, we’ve got the imposter syndrome, right? Or we’re worried that we’re going to get called out for some reason, somebody should be like, You need to prove all of these things. And so we, we don’t, we don’t end up doing the actual asking. But people have said, Hey, you can have my email address. You can email me. And so when you show up and you do the consistent, here’s some value, here’s some value, here’s some more value. What you’re doing is you’re like, you’re building up, you’re putting money in their bank, right, like this, this marketing banker, or you’re showing up and giving them these things. And people do expect that you are going to ask at some point, and it is totally okay for them to say no, if it’s not the right time. And it’s okay, like, it should be okay with us for people to say, No. I had somebody email me today saying, hey, I want to unsubscribe from your newsletter. I’m like, great. If this isn’t the right content for you, I would rather you have an experience with me that says, you know, is there anything I, can connect you with somebody who can be of value than me continuing to email them and email them and email them and then have an icky feeling of my name. So when you know that you are showing up and providing value consistently and talking about the problem that your client faces or your customer faces, and then occasionally, you slide in there and say, Hey, this is the problem people are encountering. This is the solution I have. Do you want it? That’s totally okay. They say, No, no big deal. What they’re usually saying is not right now, unless they unsubscribe, and then they’re saying no, and then that’s great for your engagement rate, because you have one less person that’s not opening your emails and that, you know that’s actually a good thing. Unsubscribe is a good thing.
Samantha Riley 8:53
Absolutely. It helps you with your deliverability, which I don’t want to go into that rabbit hole, but I think so many people get caught up in, oh my goodness, I had unsubscribes. I know we had a, I had a call with my clients only a few weeks ago, and that was actually the topic. Someone said, Oh my god, I sent out this email. And I had nine numbers ups. I’m like, Okay, well, let, let’s look at the data. Is that normal for you? Is it the content? Is it the time of year? Like, what is it? It doesn’t mean that people personally hate you and it’s a bad thing. And I think a lot of people get caught. Well, if I don’t send an email, I won’t get unsubscribes, yeah, and you won’t get sales either. So what makes someone stand out on social media, because we’ve talked about, like, the right way to to build that, that trust and build that connection. But how do you even stand out in the first place, so that you can build that?
Danielle Bornowski 9:53
So this is a little secret, and it’s so simple that people are going to be like, what? Duh. So here’s the thing, what makes you stand out is when you are authentic to yourself. So if you go and copy some marketing influencer’s entire framework and everything that they say to do, unless your audience is identical to theirs, it’s not going to work for you exactly. So if somebody says, or you know, you hear online, you need to be on Tiktok, okay? And you go, get on Tiktok. And when a camera is looking at you, you are paralyzed with fear and you are shaking in your boots and your hands are sweaty, you are not showing up as your best self. So while Tiktok could be a great strategy, if your client, you know, your ideal audience is there on Tiktok, if that doesn’t feel good to you, you are not going to show up in a way that feels, that’s authentic and that’s going to come across. So if, so when you just show up as yourself, you’re not trying to do the right thing, because you’re not trying to be someone else and follow out someone else’s plan, then you just show up as you. So I live out in the country, and I have chickens, and occasionally chickens, my chickens make an appearance on my social media feed. That is who I am. I love my chickens, and I will talk about them, and it relates. I have dogs that occasionally walk through my videos, and it’s a great video, and I am not going to stop because, you know, this random walk through or the nails clicked. So because I am in a setting, or an environment, or talking about things that I really care about, and in a way that feels good and comfortable to me, I come off cool as a cucumber, you know, in the ways that I’m showing up, because it’s me. This isn’t, it’s not anybody else. And so that is how you stand up, or, excuse me, stand out is just doing what’s comfortable to you.
Samantha Riley 12:03
I think that that is such valuable advice. Because a little side note, was chatting to someone about Facebook or like Meta advertising few weeks ago, and we were talking about the difference between still images and video. And he said, Well, the thing is, most of the time, video does outperform images. However, the problem is, is that people take that as the like, that is the only piece. He’s like. What they’re not taking into account is if someone doesn’t show up on video. Well, if they don’t use the hook properly, if they don’t, you know, there’s so many different things to take into consideration that when we’re just looking at that little piece of information in its entirety, it’s not giving the full story. So what you’re saying is lean into where you are able to most confidently show up, where your zone of genius is, and if you’re someone that’s better at writing, then showing up on video if you’re exactly like you said, shaking in your boots, it’s not the best way to do it, even though most of the time video outperforms. So it’s not about going with the big, I guess, from a high perspective, what performs better? It’s what is best for you.
Danielle Bornowski 13:22
Totally. I heard something the other day that, I was actually in a completely different context, and I was like, this completely applies to my clients and the work that we do. If something feels completely like an absolute no to you. If I say, okay, yeah, go start an Instagram account or start posting on LinkedIn, and it’s like an absolute like you have a visceral physical reaction, that is a no. If something is, hmm, I’m curious about that. It makes me a little bit uncomfortable. That’s a let’s try that and explore it, right? So there are two different reactions. If you have that physical reaction, like, oh my gosh, my whole body is clamping up thinking about that, that’s a not. It’s probably a no, but it could be like a not, now sort of a thing, but if you’re, you’re like that, but I need just a little bit of help, or I need somebody to push me in the right direction, or I need to start small with that. That’s, that’s the direction that you need to go, because you’re just, oh gosh, because if you have on your list something that really is just, sounds horrible to you, you’re never going to do it. And then you beat yourself up, and that is going to turn into a whole thing that’s not, it’s not productive for anybody, your business, you, at all.
Samantha Riley 14:41
Yeah, and I love that you said it might be a no, or it might be a not now, and that’s something really important to remember, that even though it’s not right now, it could be maybe a little bit of practice and something down the track, or it could be not now, because it’s not the right time for whatever your project is. I think that’s, what you’re doing is dropping these value bombs that seem so simple, but they can be so overlooked. This is so valuable, Danielle, I love it. What are some of the essential elements that every marketing strategy needs to be able to attract the right audience, because it’s not just about attracting any eyeballs. And I guess you know, this goes back to what you’re saying before about unsubscribes in our email list. We want to make sure that we’ve got the right people in our world. So what are some of those elements that we need to really make sure that we do have?
Danielle Bornowski 15:38
So the thing, the biggest part of the foundation that you need to build is one, to know your audience. So who are they? What are they struggling with? How does your offer solve the problem that they have? How are you being really clear with them about how to move forward and how to do business with you, because if you are the person for the job, and they know that, and they’re excited, but they can’t figure out, they go to your website and they can’t figure out, do I schedule a call? Do I click learn more? Am I supposed to get an email? What do I do? They’re going to go somewhere else, right? Because we live in a time where we get stuff so quickly that if somebody can’t deliver that, then we move on to someone who can. And so being really clear with who your person is, what your offer is, how they work with you, that’s a really critical piece of the foundation that I think a lot of people miss. From there, it’s a matter of having a lead generator, right? You’ve got to be able to capture contact information. You can’t just live connecting with your audience on social media. So what value can you provide to someone in exchange for their contact information so that you can email them and nurture and, you know, occasionally ask for the sale, and then what is that plan that you have in place for that combination of nurturing and selling. So those are the critical pieces of that marketing foundation that apply to every business. Now it looks different than nurturing. Could look different for different businesses. The sales strategy looks different, whatever the lead generator is. It could be a PDF download. It could be a quiz, all of those things are customizable and they actually can grow as your business grows, but you have to have those key things in place if you’re going to be able to move forward.
Samantha Riley 17:28
Love that so much. Now, client reviews, I know you talk about this a lot and how valuable they are, so before we even tap into, how do you get them? Can you just give a brief overview and some context into why client reviews are so valuable for us to show our audience?
Danielle Bornowski 17:54
Yeah, so client reviews, I think, are one of the most underutilized tools in the marketing toolbox. So reviews are fantastic. You go to Google and you see five stars and you’re like, Oh, I get the warm and fuzzy somebody loves me. What also they do? They give you insights into your key, your target audience, right? They tell you what people loved about your product or service so that you can refine that, you can enhance it. You can lean into that more. They tell you what people, what the transformation was of people, you know, what were they feeling, struggling with, thinking about before they worked with you or bought your product, and what it was, the result afterwards. They have, they provide social proof, right? So people want to, I can talk all day long about how great it is to work with me, but, I mean, yeah, of course, I think I can help you. But if you can read a customer testimonial from someone who’s worked with me, and they say the words that are coming out of your head, right? You’re like, oh my gosh, that’s exactly the thing I’m stuck on, and that’s exactly the result I want. You know, it’s tooting your horn for you, and it’s, it’s that proof from someone who’s actually experienced working with you. You can use it to create content. You can use it to create additional offerings and services. So you can see there’s a lot of gold that comes from a customer review that we don’t think about. So, you know, it’s kind of an afterthought. We asked one time, Hey, would you leave me a review, you had a good experience? That’s it. Oh, no. We should be relentlessly pursuing, not in a sales slimy way, but relentlessly pursuing those reviews because they’re so, so valuable for our business. If you take, you could take 10 customer reviews, and you can plug them into Chat GPT and say, find the common themes here, or the common words that you see, and Chat will do that for you. And then you take those common words and you make sure that in all of your marketing material, and on your website, you use those keywords, those frustrations that people said, the transformation they experienced. It’s all going to sell itself because you’re using the words of your customer. They’re doing the work for you. You just got to show up and do the fun part. They did the work for you. Told you how to market it, and you plug it in and, man, they’re so powerful.
Samantha Riley 20:18
Wow. I never even thought of that. That is so cool, so cool, wow. How do you collect them in the first place? Because you said we want to pursue them, but not in a salesy, in a slimy way. And I think inherently, all business owners know that reviews are really great, but it can feel uncomfortable asking for them. So how can people go, you know, and ask for reviews?
Danielle Bornowski 20:47
Yeah, that’s a great question. Yeah. It’s like, Yeah, not only you’re telling me that I have to go ask people to give me money for the product or service I have, and then I have to follow up with them, tell me how great I am. Yeah. So here’s the thing, when people have a good experience, they are completely willing to give you a product a review. They know that they look at other reviews to make sure that they’re going to engage in it, in a quality product or service experience. Here’s the thing, it takes a minute to, you know, sit down and do it. And you never know if you’re, do I email them? Do I text them? You know, what’s the right timing? Are they busy right now? You know, it’s hard to do, so that’s partly why you’ve got to follow up a couple of times in a couple of different ways. If you haven’t gotten a review from someone, it’s not that they don’t want to, and it’s not that they’re not willing to, you just kind of got to get them, you know, when they have a few minutes to think about that experience. Yeah, busy, absolutely, and they’re willing to help, but selfishly, it’s not serving that person you know to do the review. So you really just have to catch them at the right time. So, and I’ve got a guide. So if, if people are driving, I feel like, lots of times people want to take notes this kind of part of when I share this stuff, so don’t pull over, don’t Voice Note. Don’t be unsafe if you’re, you know, listening while you drive. I’ve got a guide, a template that I’ll share with your listeners, that they can just download and plug and play. Okay, so here’s the thing, when you go to ask for a review and somebody says, yeah, absolutely, had a great experience, you want them to talk about the experience specifically that they had so that, what were they struggling with before? What made them decide to work with you? What pushed them over the edge? What was the experience like, and what is life like now? So a lot of times people had a great experience, and they might give you a five star review, and I’ll use myself as a pick on, myself as an example, and they might say, Man, Danielle is awesome. And while that boosts my ego, and I’m so glad that they, you know, appreciate that they think I’m awesome, that doesn’t help anybody that’s coming to work with me, like, Okay, I want to work with someone awesome. But when they say, here’s the thing, I had tried everything under the sun in my, you know, to grow my business, and nothing was working. And I started working with Danielle, and what she did was pull all of these pieces of threads together. You know, I was, I was just like, randomly doing these acts of marketing. But what she did was she helped me put those together in a place, in a way that they work together. And then I just started seeing leads roll in my door every single day. That is a five star review right there, right like everybody wants people, leads rolling in the door, and so you can see the difference. So this template that I’ve got, this, I call it swipe copy. You just like, swipe it off my vial and plug it in. So in it, it’s got a list. It’s got a copy and paste message that you can send to customers that you know, asks them to leave a review. And then it also has a bank of 10, I think there are 10, nine or 10 questions that you can pull from, and you grab two or three, maybe four questions when you send them that request, can you please answer these questions in your review? And that gives them that guidance that they need to kind of stay and follow that storyline, to give a really detailed review about the experience, and not just to say, Oh yeah, they were awesome to work with.
Samantha Riley 24:19
Yeah. Love that. So where can people go to get a copy of that checklist?
Danielle Bornowski 24:23
Yeah. So, well, I’m sure we can link it in the show notes.
Samantha Riley
Absolutely it will be down in the show notes.
Danielle Bornowski
Yeah, yeah. So the URL is just dqbstrategies.marketing/reviews.
Samantha Riley 24:37
Awesome. So either take that or just scroll down in the show notes, wherever you’re listening and grab the link for that. What I love about reviews is, you know, it is, the dopamine hit is nice. When you’re having a really bad day, it can be nice to go and look and go, Yeah, okay, I do have it. But it really is transfer sharing the trust, and it’s helping other people see your services through the eyes of someone else, and that’s just so valuable. They can look at that go, Oh, it worked for them. Okay, I think it’ll work for me. And it’s really about, you know, transferring that trust over and right now, trust is so needed. There’s a definite dip in trust in the marketplace. So it’s, I love that strategy. Danielle, if there’s one thing that you can leave our listeners with in relation to marketing, in relation to showing up in the right way, what’s that just that one little actionable tip that you can give to leave them with today?
Danielle Bornowski 25:44
I think we get nervous about doing the right thing. We want to do it the right way. Is it perfect? We don’t want to do anything until we’re perfect and set up. But social media in general is quick moving, and we’re used to getting a lot of information, and so if I could say one thing, it’s just show up, just pick one small thing that you’re going to do, whether you’re going to go send an email or ask for a review or post two times a week on social media, just pick something small that you can, you know, manageably do, and just do it. And you will, when you do it, when you just show up in the way that you said you were going to, no matter how big or small, you’ll start to get some momentum. That is, don’t be intimidated to start perfect and huge, but start small. Find one thing that you are comfortable doing, and the rest will start to fall in place.
Samantha Riley 26:53
Wow. We had an internet glitch there. Did we not? Oh, my goodness, that is so valuable. Danielle, thank you so much for joining us today. Definitely go and grab the checklist for getting client reviews and best of luck with your fundraiser this evening.
Danielle Bornowski 27:16
Thanks so much. Thanks for having me today.
Samantha Riley 27:19
Alright, in a server there for the recording. I actually don’t know whether we’ve managed to catch that last bit, one of our, I think it was my internet dropped. I can, I just ask you that last question again, just in case it hasn’t worked, and then at least my team can, like, pop it in there. Sorry about that, because I don’t know if the audio saved.
I love this so much. If you could leave our listeners with one little actionable piece of advice today, so that they can hit stop on this recording and go and do something that’s going to move them in the right direction, what would that be?
Danielle Bornowski 27:59
Do anything, so pick one thing, whether it is to show up one extra time on social media or to try something new, or send one email or ask for a review, just pick one small thing that you can do and that is going to start that that the …
Samantha Riley 28:22
It’s all good. It’s all good. Totally. What is that? It’s easy the first time, isn’t it? But trying to replicate it.
Danielle Bornowski 28:32
I can’t even think of the word that I’m trying. It’s a very small habit, a habit that’s …
Samantha Riley 28:39
Okay, we can pick it up. I’ve got the best editing team.
Danielle Bornowski 28:44
Okay, do you? You want me to just start over my response?
Samantha Riley 28:48
Well, it’s up to you, take it wherever you feel comfortable, because they can edit anything.
Danielle Bornowski 28:56
So the best advice is just to show up and do something. It doesn’t matter what it is, but I want you to think about what’s one small thing that you can do differently that is marching towards, you know, a more of a marketing strategy. So go ask for one review, show up one more day on social media, send one email to nurture your audience, and then plan a sales email. It doesn’t matter what it is, just pick one small thing that can turn into a habit and snowball into more growth for your marketing and your business.
Samantha Riley 29:31
My God, I love that. So he heard it here, folks, just one small habit. Alright, thank you. We will be able to chop that together.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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