Your voice has the power to reach the people you’re meant to help, but only if you give it a platform that works, even while you sleep.
In this episode, Samantha sits down with Hall of Fame podcaster Dave Jackson from School of Podcasting, to break down the real reason coaches need a podcast. And no, it’s not because everyone else has one.
We talk about how your podcast educates your audience, how it shortens the sales cycle, and why creating an audio relationship builds trust faster than any marketing funnel ever could.
You’ll walk away knowing when to start, how to keep going, and what podcasting can actually do for your coaching business.
If you’re tired of feeling invisible in a crowded coaching space, your voice might just be your biggest untapped asset.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- The lightbulb moment that sparked Dave’s School of Podcasting (00:36)
- Why your podcast is the most underrated client attraction tool in your business (03:04)
- How podcasting builds real connection and powerfully opens doors (06:38)
- How podcasting puts you in rooms you’d never enter otherwise (10:31)
- When is the right time to launch your show? (12:31)
- Why your podcast is your best sales rep working 24/7 (14:27)
- Simple podcast pivots that turned listeners into paying clients (18:39)
- Why downloads don’t equal success and how to set smarter podcast goals (20:07)
- The mindset shift that gets your first episode recorded (and keeps you going) (23:52)
- How showing up consistently builds trust, even when it feels like no one’s listening or watching (26:19)
- How to get meaningful feedback and spark listener engagement (28:30)
- How to stop overthinking and finally start your podcast (30:56)
- Why free podcast hosting could cost you more than you think (33:13)
QUOTES
“What am I going to talk about that’s going to entertain or educate the ‘who?’ But I also have to get my ‘why,’ because if I don’t get my ‘why’, I’m going to burn out.” – Dave Jackson
“Time is your greatest currency. It’s more valuable than money. So the more that we can use our podcast to leverage our time, the higher the value.” – Samantha Riley
“You have to know what you are going to judge your success on. Because a lot of people that are using their podcast as a marketing tool base their success on downloads. And I’m not always sure that’s the best tool, because shouldn’t it be sales?” – Dave Jackson
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ABOUT DAVE JACKSON
Dave Jackson launched the School of Podcasting in 2005. He was inducted into the Podcasting Hall of Fame in 2018. He is the author of the book, “Profit from Your Podcast: Proven Strategies to Turn Listeners into a Livelihood.” The School of Podcasting show has over 3.2 million downloads.
WHERE TO FIND DAVE JACKSON
- Website: https://schoolofpodcasting.com/
- Twitter: www.twitter.com/davejackson
- Facebook: www.facebook.com/schoolofpodcasting
- Instagram: www.instagram.com/schoolofpodcasting
- LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/davejackson/
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/davidjackson
CONNECT WITH SAMANTHA RILEY
Facebook: Samantha Riley
Instagram: @thesamriley
LinkedIn: Samantha Riley
Twitter: @thesamriley
TRANSCRIPTION
Samantha Riley 00:00
Welcome to today’s episode of Influence By Design. I’m your host, Samantha Riley, and I’m very excited because today Dave Jackson is joining me, and we’re going to talk about podcasting, and specifically why every coach should have a podcast. So welcome Dave. It’s great to have you here.
Dave Jackson 00:18
Samantha, so happy to be here.
Samantha Riley 00:21
We’ve had an absolute blast in the green room already. So I know that this is going to be a really fun episode. You have been a podcaster for a very long time. How did you get into podcasting?
Dave Jackson 00:36
Yeah, I mean, I go way back. I started back in 2005 and at that time, I was doing a lot of, I was, I’ve always been a teacher, and so I was teaching a lot of Microsoft Office. And for those who remember, I was building websites with Microsoft front page, which is a horrible piece of technology, but it allowed me to make a website. And so I was building websites, and a friend of mine, and again, this kind of dates me. Says, Hey, do you know how you missed the MySpace boat, which I had. And I said, Yeah. And he said, Well, I’ve seen the next big thing. And I go, what is it? And he goes, it’s podcasting. And I went to Google, I typed in podcasting, and there was, like, one and a half pages. And I go, Wait, how do you spell this? And he’s like, what is it? Pod casting? Come on podcast. What I go, Dude, there’s nothing here. There’s like, one and a half pages. I said, I think we just broke the internet. And at the time, everybody was saying podcasting was going to be the next big thing, and membership sites were going to be the next big thing. And I was in a position where I was going to go back to school. I’d been teaching, but my original degree was in electronic engineering, and so when I went to get a new job, they’re like, you don’t have a teaching degree. And I’m like, but look at my resume. And they didn’t care. So the first time I went to school, I was a waiter, and I didn’t want to go back to being a waiter. And I was like, Well, if this is going to be the next big thing, I’m going to actually, you know, I’d seen so many things that you go, Oh, I should jump on that. And then you watch it go by, oh, I should jump on that, and then you watch it go by. And I was like, I’m jumping on this. I have no idea what I’m doing, but I’m going to figure it out. And so that’s how the School of Podcasting was born. And what really hooked me in is, I was doing my very first podcast was for musicians. I’d been writing a blog, and I just took that content and turned it into a podcast. And I was sitting there, and I got an email with somebody that attached a mp three as a, you know, a message, and I clicked on it. It was from Michael Van Laar from Nuremberg Germany. And I just remember I clicked it, you know, and I hear me, hello, Dave. This is Michael Van Laar from there, and I was like, Wait, did he say Nuremberg Germany? And my brother was behind me. He goes, Did he say Germany? And I go, wait. We just kept hitting play, hello, Dave. Hello, Dave, hello. And I was like, and it’s so I’m in the middle of nowhere, Ohio, and some guy on the other side of the planet had found, not only found my show, but liked it. And I was, I just grabbed my flag, and I’m like, I claim podcasting in the name of Dave, you know, been doing it ever since.
Samantha Riley 03:04
I love that so much. Let’s dive straight in, because you talk about why every coach should have a podcast. The coaching industry, a lot of people say it’s saturated. I actually am not a big believer of that. Like it’s such a tiny industry in the scheme of things, but there are a lot of coaches out there. Why do you think that every coach should have a podcast?
Dave Jackson 03:30
Well, number one, it’s your resume. It’s a digital resume, and it allows people to get to know you. So, you know, we always talk about know, like and trust, and that just comes, just gift wrap with a podcast. So when you create good content that’s helpful, and you’re like, Hey, did you know if you do this? And, oh, here’s a fun resource, and your audience goes, Oh, I didn’t even know that existed. Well, they like you because you just helped them. And so there’s that. And then anytime you can make a point with a personal story. So one example is, this was years ago, but when I was growing up, Muhammad Ali was the heavyweight boxing champ, and then I, as I grew up, I’m like, oh, there’s so much more to this guy. And he stood up for what he believed in, and actually went to jail and all this other stuff. And so he was a hero of mine, and when he died, I was really kind of bummed, and I was like, I don’t really feel like talking about podcasting today. So what I did was I took that lens, and I said, here are five things podcasters can learn from Muhammad Ali. Number one, totally unique. Number two, really talented. Number three, always promoting, you know. And I just went through the list. And so yes, I was still talking about podcasting, but I was sharing my love of Muhammad Ali. And what was interesting is I woke up the next day and I had a few people that had emailed me that said, Hey, he was my champ, too, and now I’ve got a conversation going, and so they get to know you a little bit through these stories. It’s not like, hey, let’s start off the show. I’m going to tell you. I’m going to waste 15 minutes of your time talking about my cat, like, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about making a point with a story. And so they do kind of get to know you. And so when you then say, you know, hey, I’ve got this new course or a new book, or you can hire me, or whatever it is, you’ve got to know, like, and trust, and when you do it on a consistent basis, then you’re seen as trustworthy. So I haven’t missed a Monday in 20 years. And so it’s, it’s just these little things that you do. And it’s also, it’s kind of weird, because if you can do it, you become part of the routine. And that is huge, because I’ve had people say you’re with me every, you’re with me on the way to the feed store every Monday, and I’m like, okay, and you, you say things and you don’t realize that you have impact on people. I had a, I live in Akron, Ohio, and I always tell people, if you’re ever near Akron, Ohio, send me an email. I’m taking you. We’re going to get some Luigi’s pizza. And so a guy’s like, Hey, I’m going to be in Akron next week. I want my pizza. And I’m like, absolutely. And so he came to town and he said, Do you remember how you used to sign off your musician podcast. And I go, I don’t remember what I had for breakfast, you know, yesterday, let alone what I said 20 years ago. And he said, you used to say, for those who have money, there is therapy, and for the rest of us, there is music. And I go, I said that? And he goes, here. And I go, that’s not bad. And he said, I now teach at a university. He goes, I teach music. And he goes, I start off every semester with that. And I was like, You have no idea, it’s just you and you’re, you know, down in the basement talking into a microphone next to the water heater. And you have no idea the impact you’re having with people.
Samantha Riley 06:38
Totally. That know, like, and trust, it’s also common ground, which obviously is, is part of that, that like piece, but common ground is how people really connect with us. And I know, I think it’s Pat Flynn on his podcast at the beginning. I don’t know if he still does, but he used to say, like, a little tiny fact about him, like there was something like, you know, something about hating spiders, or something about liking Lego, and there was something that he said at the beginning of each episode, and he’s got a really good sense of who he was as a person. And I think that that connection piece for me, and I don’t know if it’s just me, but I actually prefer to hear that and it resonates, and we remember those things even more than video, even though video is so huge, and I think that having that podcast and finding that common ground with people, it’s got this really weird effect where you actually feel like you know that person in real life.
Dave Jackson 07:37
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s kind of, it’s not weird, but there are times when I get to meet people who have listened to my show, and it is, and I’ve been on the other side of that too. I’ve met people that I listen to, and you feel like you know them, but you also know you don’t really know them. And it’s always kind of odd. But I think one of the best compliments I ever got was somebody said, wow, you’re just like you are on the show. And I go, I hope so, because I’m just being myself. And so the other thing is, a lot of people go, Well, should I do a solo show, or should I do a interview show? And the interview show grows your network. And so I’ve gotten a few jobs because of people I’ve interviewed on my show like I was the head of podcaster education at Libsyn for eight years. And the reason I got that job is, like, forever ago, I did a show called This Week in Podcasting, and one of those people was Rob Walch, who’s now the vice president of, over there at Libsyn, along with some other people. And you know, so that grows your network. And I’ve had things where, I mean, it could go on forever, where people have just handed me jobs. They’re like, Hey, you’re in Ohio. We need somebody who can record stuff here, you know. So that’s another reason. And then the solo show, and I don’t do, nothing against YouTubers, but I will never open up a show going, Hey guys, because I talk to one person, I’m always like, Hey, thanks so much for tuning in. I’m so glad you’re here. And it’s just a weird little tweak. But I have people say, I feel like you’re talking to me when I listen to your show, because I am. And so that’s another thing. You just get to meet people, and can we just do a little humble brag theater? This is an actual thing. It’s just, it’s such a, anyway, before I worked at Libsyn, there was a big show before things like Podcast Movement. It was called The New Media Expo, and the head of podcasting had stepped down, and the guy was looking for a new one, and he called the head of Blubrry, that’s a media host. He called the head of Libsyn, and he called the head of Spreaker, and they all said the same thing. Dave Jackson. Why? Because they had been on my show as guests. And they’re like, That guy really knows podcasting. And so again, it’s the networking that, you know, really brought in that position. So it’s, he finally just called me. He’s like, Well, I’m tired of calling different people. They’re all saying the same name. I’m just going to call you. But. That is something that definitely comes into play is the fact that I can talk to people. My very first show for musicians, I was interviewing people that were my idols growing up thinking there’s no way this person’s going to come on my show. And then you’d be like, Hey, I’m doing this podcast. You’re promoting your new drum course or something like that. Do you want to come on my show? And they’d be like, Yeah. And I’m like, holy cow, the drummer from Ozzy Osbourne is going to be on my own little podcast. So it’s a great way to get the doors to open.
Samantha Riley 10:31
It absolutely is, and it’s a really great way to get access to people that you wouldn’t normally. I remember the day that Dr. John Demartini reached out to me, and I actually believed, until I had him on camera, I honestly thought someone was pranking me because I’d really, like, admired him and his work, but he reached out to me to be on my show. There is no way if I didn’t have a show I believe, or I believe this fully, that I would never have been able to have a one on one conversation with him the way that I did. It’s such an incredible door opener. Like, who doesn’t, who doesn’t want to show up in the spotlight, on a platform that someone else has created?
Dave Jackson 11:13
Yeah, and then, I mean, there are other side effects, like I was, I just spoke last week at Podcast Movement. I was supposed to speak once, but I worked out for Podpage, where I’m the head of podcasting over there. And the head of Podpage was supposed to be there. Long story short, his entire family got very sick, including him, and he couldn’t make it. And he let me know about a day and a half, he’s like, Hey, I need you to do my presentation. And the fun part was, he was going to do the slides on the plane. So I had to come up with a 20-minute presentation in about a day and a half. And if you had done that to me 20 years ago, I would have, you know, curled up in a ball and cried on the floor. And I was like, Okay, can you send me a video of you giving me the main topics? I’ve got a bunch of presentations that I’ve done over the years. I’ll just pick some slides and kind of Frankenstein one together. And I talked to somebody later, and they said that was one of the best presentations I’ve seen all week. And I’m like, Wow, thank you very much. I go, you won’t believe it, but you know, and I told the story, I said I just basically pulled that one, you know, out of my ear. And they’re like, I never would have known that. And I think just because you’re constantly making content, you’re good at putting, you know, things together, so that when you do get those surprises, you’re not thrown, really.
Samantha Riley 12:31
Yeah, totally. I want to talk about, to the people right now that don’t have a podcast, because there’s going to be a lot of people listening. They know I’m banging on about podcasting all the time. Maybe they’re guesting and podcasting, but they’re not making that, you know, like you said before putting that flag in the sand and saying, Alright, I’m having my own podcast. They might feel like they need everything to be perfect, or they might not like the sound of their own voice. This is all the stuff that we hear all the time, right? What can you say to them, and how will they know it’s the right time?
Dave Jackson 13:08
Well, number one, talk to any parent. Almost every parent, I know, they go, Well, yeah, we were kind of trying, but not really or whatever. Like, I am not a planned person. I am, my dad let me know like you were kind of an oopsie and so, but it turned out okay, but yeah, a lot of times it’s imposter syndrome that who’s going to listen to us, that kind of thing and but, when I was a teacher, I used to teach a course called Microsoft Access, which is this really boring database program. And I was not a person that played like I did in Excel and Word. So every time I taught the class, I was really kind of nervous about it. And my boss came in, he said, Just realize you need to know this much more than your students. And in some cases, I’ve seen people that’ll do a show where they openly say, I don’t know what I’m doing here. And I call that a Journey podcast, where they’re like, I want to be, you know, this, and they’re like, so you come along with me to the journey. We’re going to interview experts and go that route. But it really is. You don’t have to have millions of dollars worth of equipment. I mean, the microphone I’m talking into right now is $200 but this one, which doesn’t sound a whole lot different, is 80 bucks. So I always say, you can get going for the price of an Xbox.
14:27
And when I started, I was, I’d just gone through, it was a great year. I’d gone through a bankruptcy and a divorce, so I was temporarily living in my brother’s basement. And, you know, it was like, Well, I was a musician, so I had a microphone, and figured out how to plug everything in. And it really, all you need to know is kind of, why am I doing this? Like, what do you want the podcast to do? And then you have to figure out who is it for, and when you kind of overlap those, like, here’s why I’m doing that, and here’s who it’s for. That’s your what. What am I going to talk about that’s going to entertain or educate the who, but I also have to get my why, because if I don’t get my why, I’m going to burn out and from there, you just kind of keep going. And, I mean, I’ve helped. There was a real estate person I was working with, and he said, I don’t even know where to start. I go, Alright, give me the things that if somebody asks you that question, you’re just going to roll your eyes and go, Ugh. And he goes, how to get my house appraised? I go, there you go. That’s episode one. He goes, What do you mean? I go, all the stuff that you get asked all the time. Obviously people are looking for that because they keep asking you that. I said, so make those your first couple of episodes. And I said, and now when somebody emails you and says, How do I get my house appraised? I said, go ahead and answer the question. Don’t be rude, I said, But say I talk about this in Episode Four and send them a link. And he told me, because this is interesting, he goes, because six months later he goes, it’s not the end of cold calling. He goes, but all those really 101 questions are getting answered. Because sure, they they went over to listen to episode three or four, but while they were there, they listened to Episode One and episode six and episode nine, and he goes, so it’s freeing him up to do the stuff where his clients really need him and so, and it works 24/7, so it’s not the end of cold calling, but the people you’re going to talk to are, I had somebody this week that reached out and said, Hey, I’m thinking of starting a podcast. Do you think we could get on a discovery call? And I said, I have over 900 episodes. I said, and I have a 30 day money back guarantee I go. It’s not an ego thing. I just don’t have time to do discovery calls. If you can’t determine after 900 episodes if I’m a good fit or not, you know, because I’ve done those, and I will answer their three questions, and they won’t sign up, and that’s the end. And I just quit doing it. And so it’s just a great tool. And you don’t realize, you know, while you’re sleeping, that you’re still getting clients. And it’s, it is funny, I was in Nashville, Tennessee, and I don’t know if you know, remember Kenny Rogers had a, it was a country guy, and I met his assistant, and I said, Oh, we gotta get Kenny to do a podcast. And he never did. I didn’t realize at the time he was sick, but it was like, a year and a half later that she contacted me. She’s like, I don’t think you remember me, but I was Kenny’s assistant. I’m like, Oh, I might go, I totally remember you. And she goes, Well, I’ve been listening to your show. And so it’s one of those things where you do have to be patient, because the episode that they listened to today might not actually get them to, you know, move for another, you know, nine months, but you are planting that seed.
Samantha Riley 17:36
Yeah, totally. It does all sorts. It doesn’t just open doors, like you’ve already mentioned, and it doesn’t just help people to understand what it is you do, but it, you know, like you said, also helps build the know, like and trust factor. But it can do things like shorten your sales cycle. You know, we use our podcast to send to to people that we’ve chatted to, and they’re kind of maybe on the fence, or they’ve booked in another call, and we’ll send some episodes that specifically speak to what, you know, what they’re talking about, what their apprehensions are, I guess. And there’s so many different ways that you can use it. You know, case studies with your clients. You can also use them to send to prospects. It leverages your time. And as coaches like, and anyone that’s in business, time is your greatest currency, you know, it’s more valuable than money. So the more that we can use our podcast to leverage our time, the value there is just so great.
Dave Jackson 18:39
Yeah, I have a friend of mine that she was doing a podcast and kind of followed the road map. It’s like, Oh, I’ll do a podcast and I’ll do interviews. And she said, but I wasn’t getting any coaching clients. And so what she did was she kind of threw out an offer, like, Hey, would you be willing to come on and have our coaching session recorded? And so she did that. And it’s one of those things where the listener might go, oh, I have a similar problem to that. And she said it was like a turn on a light switch, like her audience went, Oh, that’s what coaching is. And she said, all of a sudden, you know, here came the people asking for it. And so I don’t know if she still does that, but for a while, like, every, I don’t know, six or seven episodes, she’s like, Okay, today we’re doing a coaching call. This is this person’s business, and of course, that person got exposure for their business, so it was kind of a bonus for that. But I’ve seen people adopt that as a strategy, where they’ll either A, interview, you know, clients or whoever, to kind of help them do a coaching call, or they’ll do the opposite. They will interview maybe an expert who should be hiring them, this kind of thing to kind of like, Hey, I can’t get this person to return my phone call. I’d love to have them as a client. I see where I can help them. And they’ll say, hey, why don’t you come on as a guest? And then they’ll talk about the industry, or whatever that they’re in. So a couple different ways that you can spin it. But it’s, it’s interesting, and through that whole thing, you just want to pay attention to your audience and seeing what’s working.
20:07
And also you have to determine what is, how are you going to judge your success? And so an example that, because everybody goes, What do you mean? It’s a podcast, downloads, right? Isn’t that how you judge your success? And I go, not really. I go for me.\, I judge my success on how many people join the School of Podcasting. And I go and in January, my numbers go through the roof, because everybody’s like, Oh, this is the year I’m going to start a podcast. And in February, much like every gym membership, they start to go down and, but my memberships start to go up, because some of those people in January actually decided to start a podcast. So if I only kind of based my success on downloads, I’d be depressed in February because my numbers are going down. But I’m not, because I’m doing this to get members, and that’s going up. So you have to kind of know, what are you going to judge your success on? Because a lot of people that are using their podcast as a marketing tool, they base their success on downloads. And I’m like, I’m not always sure that’s the best tool, because shouldn’t it be sales? If that’s what you’re doing it for, and that’s where it’s interesting, because a lot of people will end up kind of depressed. They’re like, Oh, my podcast isn’t working. And they’re like, why, I’ve only got X amount of downloads, and I’m like, but is it bringing in a business? They’re like, Well, yeah. And I go, Well, isn’t that a success? Then, isn’t that what you did it for? I mean, I helped one guy. He contacted me and said, My family does not want to talk about Batman anymore. And he goes, but I love Batman, and I want to talk about Batman. He goes, I know there’s a million shows already, so I helped him launch his podcast, and it was him and his friend, and they were talking, you know, Batman in the basement. And he got done with this first episode, and I helped him get it into Apple and Spotify and all that. And I looked at him, and I said, What do you think? And he’s like, Well, you know what, I’m much more confident behind the microphone, etc, etc. And I said, well, good, because your podcast is a raging success. He’s like, I’ve only got one episode. And I go, but you’re doing what you wanted. The goal was, I want to talk about Batman. And I go, and you, my friend, are talking about Batman. I go, congratulations. You’re a raging success. And he goes, No, I didn’t think of it that way. Yeah, so, because we, between downloads, and I’m only valid if I have a sponsor, and I’m like, Oh, you’ve already got a sponsor. You, you are your own sponsor. I mean, if I sell a book, I make $12 profit. And the people that are like, Oh, you can make money from day one with a podcast. Well, that’s programmatic ads. And if you’re really, really lucky, you might get $5 per 1000 downloads. And I’m like, well, to make $12 at that rate, you’d have to have, it’s, I think it’s 2400 downloads. And I’m like, so what is easier getting 2400 downloads or selling one book. Exactly. And I’m like, nothing against advertising. That’s one of the ways you can monetize. I’m like, but if you have a product and service, that’s the, by far the most profitable way to make money with a podcast.
Samantha Riley 23:08
Totally and the price of selling a program is way more than that book as well. There, like it is just so easy, or so much easier to make money selling your own program, and really, as you say, being your own sponsor. You talked a little bit about success there and the success metrics. There’s one thing you didn’t talk about that I want to dive into, because pod fade’s a real thing. You would know these stats more than me. I think it used to be pod fade happened about episode three. I believe now it’s about episode 12, that people fade out. What is the golden thread that you’ve seen with successful podcasters like and by that, I mean the people that continue on with their show?
Dave Jackson 23:52
Yeah, it’s number one coming in with realistic expectations. People, if you think about it, if you look at, you know, world class athletes, or, you know, famous musicians. They all make it look so easy. I remember I saw a concert. There was a guy from Canada. His name was Jeff Healey, and he was blind, and he played the guitar almost like a piano. He laid it flat on his lap, and he could then play with kind of, it was just a different style. It was amazing. And I saw him in concert, and I went home, and I’m a guitar player, and I turned my guitar flat, put it on my lap, and it sounded like I was strangling a cat. I was like, I don’t know how he was doing that, but he made it look so easy. So I think with, you know, you know, everybody talks about Joe Rogan, and he just sitting there talking to his friends, and I’m like, Well, number one, Joe Rogan started in 1988 and number two, he’s talking to other celebrities, and we’ll sit through boring conversations if they’re a celebrity. I’m not sure why, but we do that, so that’s part of it is just, I, I’m just going to talk into a microphone and money’s going to fall from heaven. No, that’s not the way that works. And then the other one is, I always say a lot of people call this passion. But to me, it’s the, you want to serve your audience. In fact, a lot of times that’s what gets people to press record, because they have that imposter syndrome. And I’m like, when the need to serve your audience is greater than your fear of looking silly, I go, you’ll actually press record. And a lot of times that, it’s not the technology, it’s not …
Samantha Riley 25:19
It’s such a mind game, isn’t it?
Dave Jackson 25:22
Yeah, it’s really tough. So I think that’s it, just the passion to keep moving through. And I always advise all my clients, I go, when you get that email that says, Wow, that really helped change my life, or I love that you made me laugh, I go save those somewhere in Gmail, because they’re going to be those days when you’re like, I don’t feel like doing the podcast today. Go read those, because you forget about those. And so I think that’s really it. And just the fact that people go, Oh, I’ve only got 80 downloads, and I go, that’s a hallway where I used to teach. I go, if 20 people in a class was pitiful, I said, and you’ve got four of those that could be watching Netflix or Hulu or whatever. They could be playing video games. They could be riding a bike. They could be reading a book. You know, there’s all these other things. There’s no spam in podcasting. If I don’t want to listen to your show, I just swipe left and hit delete. And there’s nothing you can do about that. And so don’t ever put the word only in front of those numbers.
Samantha Riley 26:19
Yeah, you know, what I found really difficult when I started podcasting was the fact that I felt like I was just speaking, well, either to a guest or speaking to myself and out into an abyss. And it was almost like I didn’t believe the numbers when I saw them. I’m like, yeah, it’s saying that I’ve got downloads or listeners, but I don’t know, like, I never hear from any of them. And my very first show was, which is not around. It was pretty woeful, but it was, of course, any episode one of anything is going to be pretty woeful. And I did 100 episodes of that show before I shut it down and changed. But I’m so glad, because that was me doing my apprenticeship, I guess. And I was maybe about 20 episodes in, and I’m a very, I’m an ex ballet dancer, so we’re very, you know, we always do things the way they’re meant to be. So I hadn’t missed an episode. It was like, every Monday, every Thursday, my episode went out and about at episode 20, I missed an episode because at that time, I was doing all of my own editing and, you know, all of my own graphics and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, when you’re a coach, ran out of hours, just didn’t get an episode out. And someone emailed me and went, Oh my goodness, is everything okay? He missed an episode, and it was the very first time I’d heard from a listener. I’m like, Oh my goodness. He had been waiting. He knew that every Monday and every Thursday, at exactly 4 am the episode dropped. He always listened to it whenever he was, you know, you talked about it before. It’s part of their habit. And that’s when I realized, oh my goodness, I don’t actually know what kind of impact I’m having, and when I heard that, it completely changed my mindset around making sure that my episode went out, because those people were almost relying on my episode dropping to help them go on their walk or whatever it was that they were doing. So, you know, it can be difficult to get going, but actually on that, do you have any tips for people that are in that situation where they feel like they’re just talking into an abyss?
Dave Jackson 28:30
Yeah, if you want feedback, you have to ask a very specific question. Doesn’t matter what it is, because if you say, Hey, I’d love to hear your feedback on the show, if you’re lucky, you’ll get somebody that says it’s good, if you’re lucky, right? So I do a segment of my show, and this is really just because I’m lazy. I’m just like, Okay, let’s let you make the content this week. And I started, I tried it once as an experiment, and it worked, and I’ve been doing it ever since, and I just do a question of the month, but to get those people to reply, it’s, here’s the question, and when you say it, be sure to mention your show and just a little bit about it. Don’t forget to mention your website. And I need you to go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by April 27 or whatever the date is, yada yada yada. And so I’m telling them where to go, I’m telling them what I’m looking for, and then I’m telling them why I need it, and I get people to answer. Now, it’s not a ton, you know, I’ll look at it like that is .03% of my audience actually responded, but I get enough for an episode, and it’s a great way to, like, last week, we were saying it used to be, are you using AI? And I said, I’m bringing that question back. It’s been about a year and a half. I go now, let’s talk about what AI are you using, because we’re all playing with some sort of toy, and it was interesting hearing the different ways that people are using it. And it was, what AI are you using? And is it really saving you time? And it was interesting to get that, so was something that we could all learn from. So if you want feedback, make it easy, you know, and give them a specific question. I used to listen to Michael Hyatt, he’s a business author, and at the end of the episode, he would always ask a very specific question. It’d be like, Have you ever, you know, done something really embarrassing at your job, which may not be a great question, because not many people want to throw themselves under the bus. Yeah, right. He would have a very specific question. It wasn’t like I’d love your feedback, so you’ve got to do that. And just realize, I mentioned this in a few different presentations. It usually is 3% of your audience will take action as much as they say they love you. It’s, you know, a lot of people are like, Oh, I’ll do that as soon as I get home. And then they don’t. So if you’ve got 100 you know, downloads an episode, and you get three answers, congratulations, that’s about right, So keep that in mind.
Samantha Riley 30:56
Love that. Love that. For people who are listening, going, I need to, you’ve convinced me, I need to have a podcast. What is the one thing that you can say to them right now that will have them actually taking action instead of I need to have a podcast, and then by tomorrow, forgetting that they’ve said that they need to do it?
Dave Jackson 31:24
Well, that’s a good question. There are a couple things. Number one, if you just want to practice, you’ve got a voice recorder on your phone. Just practice talking into it. Because, you know, authors have rough drafts, actors have dress rehearsals, athletes have pre-seasons. So just put your thoughts on something and throw it away. It’s, you know, you don’t have to publish it. A lot of people think, Oh, I don’t want to look stupid. And I go, the only way you look stupid is if you don’t edit out the stupid stuff. You know, a lot of people say a podcast is a conversation. I go, No, no, it’s a conversation with the boring parts removed. You got to remember somebody else is listening to that. And then the other thing is, because I’ve seen this stop people in their tracks, you’re going to hate the sound of your voice. That is science. If you talk and put your fingers on your forehead, you’ll notice that your forehead is vibrating, and what you’re actually doing is when you hear yourself, you hear yourself through your ears, but also through your skull. The the fancy word is, it’s bone conduction. And what happens then is when you record your voice and now you play it through speakers, you’re only listening through your ears, and so some of the base of your voice is gone. It’s just that’s the way it is. It’s science. And I’ve had people like, Oh, is that how I sound? And I’m like, yeah. And they’re like, Oh, it’s so shrill, I hate the sound of my voice. I go, No, have I said, Have you ever been having a lovely conversation with somebody on the phone and they just hang up and they go, No, and I go, exactly your voice is fine. Yeah. It’s just different. So that’s another thing that people run into. So, yeah, you know, like I said, take those questions that you get all the time. There’s your content. Just practice getting on a microphone. Realize you’re going to hate the sound of your own voice, and then from there …
33:13
Oh, the other one, avoid free media hosts. You get what you pay for. I have a list of about 13, because I know this is a, especially on a business show. Believe it or not, free is not a good business model. There’s no profit in it. And what happens is they, they say, Oh, we give you free media hosting, and then later we’ll get you ads, and then we’ll take a cut of that to pay for the free media host. And it sounds like a great deal, until you finally build your audience, and it’s about the time you’re going to get ads, and then you go, Oh, you know what? I have an audience. I could, I could actually pay for this now. I’ll move over to that host, I’ll get the ads, and I’ll keep all the money. And people keep trying that same business model, like, did you not see the other 12 that went through the same thing, and they got a business? So avoid free media hosts. They don’t work, even if their name’s Spotify, just, you get what you pay for.
Samantha Riley 34:05
I love it. Love it. Love it. Dave, it’s been an absolute pleasure to chat with you today. I really have loved this conversation. How do people stay connected with you?
Dave Jackson 34:16
Yeah, my main website is schoolofpodcasting.com. That’s where you can find all my episodes and contact me there and everything else. It’s all there, schoolofpodcasting.com.
Samantha Riley 34:27
Awesome. Of course, the links will be in the show notes down below as always. Dave, thanks for joining me today.
34:33
Samantha, this has been a thrill. Thank you so much.
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