Messaging that converts doesn’t follow the rules. It rewrites them.
In this episode, Samantha Riley chats with Kathryn Thompson as she unpacks the myths around “good messaging” and lays out what it really takes to connect, convert, and communicate like a human being.
We go deep on why cookie-cutter content is killing your brand, how to escape bro marketing for good, and the surprisingly strategic power of showing your messy middle. Kathryn shares a refreshingly nuanced take on sales, messaging, decision-making, and the art of unpolished positioning, proving that clarity doesn’t come from loudness, but from honesty.
The market is evolving. People are craving truth, not templates, and this is your moment to step into messaging that mirrors the depth of your work.
Forget conformity and lean into your edge.
If you’ve ever felt like your message got lost somewhere between “authentic” and “algorithm-approved,” this one’s for you.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- The messaging mistakes that flatten your voice and how to avoid them (00:48)
- A human-first sales approach that builds trust without pressure (04:45)
- Dropping the polished persona and building instant trust (11:35)
- Framing your value in emotionally resonant ways that still feel clear and compelling (17:01)
- Sharing bold truths in a cancel-culture climate (23:15)
- Redefining success in a way that aligns with your values (28:16)
- How to reconnect with your voice and tap into your natural expression and values (34:50)
WANT TO EXPLORE WHAT’S POSSIBLE FOR YOUR BUSINESS?
If you would like to brainstorm a plan to explore what’s possible for you, I invite you to book in for a Scale Session.
In this quick 15-minute call we’ll dive into…
• Reviewing your niche, offer, and pricing to map out your immediate growth potential…
• Evaluating your marketing, sales, and delivery systems to pinpoint what’s working and what’s not…
• Identifying the primary bottleneck that’s holding you back from growing and scaling…
• Build a 3-step growth and scale plan rooted in positioning, profit, and simplicity
Click Here to book your no-charge Scale Session
RESOURCES:
Free Quiz – What’s Your Elevated Edge: https://creativelyowned.com/quiz
ABOUT KATHRYN THOMPSON
Kathryn Thompson is a Canadian-based entrepreneur who inspires people to use their stories as a way to create change in the world. She’s an award-winning marketing and communications expert with more than 20 years of experience. After growing one of her businesses to close to a million dollars in sales in less than four years, she sold it with a single email. Kathryn is now the founder of Creatively Owned, a marketing and communications firm that helps entrepreneurs use the power of words to create instant appeal for what they are selling.
WHERE TO FIND KATHRYN THOMPSON
- Website: https://creativelyowned.com/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/creativelyowned
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/creativelyowned
CONNECT WITH SAMANTHA RILEY
Instagram @thesamriley
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TRANSCRIPTION
Samantha Riley 0:02
Welcome to today’s episode. I’m looking forward to sharing Kathryn Thompson with you today, who is here to talk about messaging. And I think that this is such an important topic because I was just having this conversation with someone five minutes ago. There’s so many, entrepreneurs think that the problem is their offer and 9.9 times out of 10, it’s their messaging. So buckle in, listen up, and Kathryn, welcome to the show.
Kathryn Thompson 0:29
Thank you. I’m excited to be here. And yeah, chat with your audience.
Samantha Riley 0:33
Awesome. Let’s start off. I wanted like it right, right in. Jump right in. Why does so many entrepreneurs sound the same online, even when they’ve got wildly unique stories and skill sets?
Kathryn Thompson 0:48
Yeah, that’s such a great question. I think the biggest reason that people do sound, we all sound the same is because we’re emulating, maybe not consciously, like we’re emulating the messaging that we see out there, and we’re trying to fit our uniqueness into some predetermined framework, system. And when you’re first starting your business, I understand following the frameworks and following all those sorts of things, but oftentimes they don’t do a great job of like, getting, drilling down to what really makes you unique. They’re often very surface level, like what’s your niche? Help, those sorts of things that like their surface level. And we need that. We need that clarity on that type, but we also need to get to like the nuance of what makes you unique and you different. And that’s why we see a lot of the same-same on the internet, because not many people are going to the nuance or the depth that is required to really, truly stand out.
Samantha Riley 1:42
You just mentioned there that the journey is different from beginning, and I think that, actually, I don’t think, I know, that I want to highlight that, because it is like an iteration. It is a journey. And you kind of do, unfortunately, need to crawl through the mud a little bit, right, to get to that. So that’s definitely what I’ve noticed. And I’ve definitely noticed that when you’re, you know, along the way, you do emulate other people, and not because you’re copying them, but unconsciously, you’re just working through their process. So for those people that are sort of at the beginning of the journey, because I don’t kind of want to stick here for too long, is there something that you can help them with or think about what to focus on right now?
Kathryn Thompson 2:42
Yeah, so in the early stages, you’ve nailed it right? It’s like we are emulating because we’re trying to find our footing, right? It’s like learning the messaging landscape, and we’re trying to find our way through it, and the only way is through the experimentation. We all go through it. But I think when you’re first starting out. I think the first thing that you can do to really get to the sort of the nuts and bolts of what you do and what makes you different is, sure use that framework as a template, as a guide. And anytime they’re asking for, like, what’s your niche? Who do you serve? Write that I help statement, all of those sorts of things. I always love to dig a layer deeper. So, like, when you’re talking about who you help, then can we even get one layer deeper nuance to your people and three things I often ask myself. What does it sound like? What does it look like? What does it feel like? So if you’re helping moms who have newborns, let’s just say, I’m just riffing, then it’s like, what does it look like? Sound like, feel like for them, rather than a mom that might have teens, because they’re very different in terms of their feeling, even that layer of nuance, which is, I say, one step down, that is going to help you so much more in your messaging, for it to really stand out and be unique, above what other beginners in the industry are doing, because many just live sort of at that surface.
Samantha Riley 4:06
Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. I love that. So you talk about marketing that doesn’t feel manipulative, and this is something that is near and dear to my heart, because I think that the age of the bro marketer is gone, yeah, like, we’ve all had enough. We’ve seen it, we’ve heard it. The audience is so much more, what’s the word I’m looking for? Like, we’ve just, we’ve seen that, we’ve heard it this morning. Thank you. That would be the word I’m looking for. So what are some classic rules that you’ve completely ditched in your business?
Kathryn Thompson 4:45
Yeah, so any sort of pressure marketing with like, hard deadlines, any sort of use of like FOMO, like you’re gonna miss out if you don’t get this now, no pressure on sales calls, so we don’t even collect credit card payments on sales calls. We always give people time to walk away and space to decide, and then any of our messaging and our marketing is like there is no rush to make a decision. What we’ve done is really position what we do differently, and that, to me, sells, it sort of sells itself, so full scarcity, false urgency, anything FOMO, anything that’s gonna play off people’s dysregulated nervous system, that fear, that flight or fight, right, that we we’ve taken that all out, and we’ve removed any pressure from it. And the experiences that I offer also iterate that. So when they get into the experience, there’s lots of space and time to integrate and move, because messaging is a process. It does take the iteration, take putting things out and sort of testing, so all of that urgency that we’ve removed, and we’re still refining some of it. The next stage of that iteration is really starting to look at the funnel building and what that looks like. How many emails do we need to send? Like, can we be a little bit more direct in what we’re doing, rather than, you know, here’s your pain point, that sort of thing, here’s how to overcome it. Like, can we even refine that even more so, yeah.
Samantha Riley 6:26
And what I’m loving about that is that we are always, even when we think we’ve got there, we never have like, things are changing. Times are changing. People’s buying patterns are changing. The market is changing. So we need to fully embrace that we’re always, always iterating, moving, testing and measuring. And the question I’ve got off the back of that, because you talked about people, you know, they’re in fight or flight, and I think people have been like that for years now, we all know kind of the major point where it started that feels like it was yesterday. And I can’t believe how long ago it actually was, and we’re still in that. You know, there’s the economic landscape, there’s so many like the political landscape in so many countries. How do you, without using scarcity, how do you actually support, guide and help people to make decisions? Because when we’re in fight or flight, it’s really difficult to make a decision. So if you’re taking away the scarcity, how are you replacing that?
Kathryn Thompson 7:33
Yeah, great question. So we do sales calls in my like to enroll anybody, sort of into my program. And really what we’re doing is a lot of inquisitive question, helping them come to their own decision, really, through a lot of listening. So what’s interesting about my sales call process is I’ve actually now hired somebody to support me in that. And when I first hired that person, I was like, I don’t know how to train you, because any of my sales calls, when she would watch them, she’s like, you don’t really talk. And I was like, No, I don’t. I listen, my sales calls are all me listening and just asking questions. And then by the end of the call, we come to a conclusion, is it a yes? Is it a no, or is it a not right now? Or maybe I need to think about it? And we honor all three of those, and they know at the beginning of the call that that’s where I want to lead them. And if they are in fight or flight, if they, and I can sense that, then we are redirecting them. We aren’t using bonuses or like you’ve got to make a decision in the next 24 hours. Like it’s if we can sense it on the call, we actually will steer them and say, you might want to take some time to, like, just sit with this for a moment. One week is not going to make the difference, even though, in that moment of fight or flight, it feels like I’ve got, I need to do it now or not, or I’m in indecision. So we really take the pressure off the sales call. And the process, like my funnel that’s built is, is like, adds to a master class that’s, they can access whenever they want. There’s no countdown timer. They don’t have a week to watch it. Like, I mean that link is there and live for them to watch whenever they want. And then same with the sale, the sales call process. So we try to eliminate any pressure out of it, and then we spend a lot of time listening and guiding, which is the same work I do in my program. So some people don’t thrive in that if you are very much in survival, oftentimes you need a lot of hand holding. You need a lot of accountability, and that sort of stuff, which is not the area of my expertise or where I work, to really get to the truth of who you are. So in the work that I do, and so everything that I do is set up for them to actually thrive in working with me, and the way that I coach, and the way that I mentor, which is like very relaxed and sort of lean back, rather than like leaning in and really holding them accountable and all of that. So …
Samantha Riley 10:03
What I love about that, and this is something that I think the bro marketers have completely ruined, is the make a million dollars in two weeks, make a million dollars in 48 hours, is kind of where it started dating. And yeah, what that did, I feel, is educated the audience to feel that that was possible, yeah, and if it was possible for someone, because they did do that, what the, it didn’t tell the rest of the story of that person’s probably been in business for 20 years, because it’s not straight out of the gate, like it’s just not possible to come straight out of the gate and do that, because business is such an exploratory journey. It is about pushing the boundaries, testing, measuring, starting to feel into what feels right and doesn’t feel right, and when something doesn’t work, we do need to take back, take a step back, and take a breath. And that doesn’t mean that we’re quitting. It’s just like we need to create the space to go, Alright, where am I landing? How does it feel? And this is something that you’ve already been mentioning so much, we have to tune into our bodies to get these answers. It’s not a logical process. It’s bringing together the feeling and the thought. So, oh, I’m loving this so much. What about the cost of trying to be too professional or too polished with your messaging like, can that actually backfire?
Kathryn Thompson 11:35
100%, 100%, because majority of us are not always perfectly put together. We’re not always polished and perfect, and there actually has been studies done where it actually shows when, when we can reflect some of our flaws and not deliver deliberately and not manufactured, but when we can show up like authentically in our wholeness of all the parts that we are. It people. People will trust us far more. And there’s actually research studies on this, if you show up with the flaws, with the the mess, whatever it is and not manufactured as a persona, more people will trust you, actually quicker than if you’re perfectly polished and put together. And we’ve seen brands like that, where there is a persona that’s happening, and it does take longer for people to actually trust, which is why a lot of the people that come to work with me can move people quicker down that buying journey. And it’s not because we’re using manipulative tactics, and we’re not using it’s just they go from cold to sold, and it can be in a short reel, and it’s because it’s reflecting the authenticity of who the person is, and that looks different for everybody.
Samantha Riley 12:50
Yeah, totally. I have a case study on a podcast, and it was years ago of a client that came to me that had been in another program where the mentor had a very shiny, untouchable persona, like amazing person, but it was like, I’ve never done anything wrong. Everything I’ve always done has been 100% right. Everything I touch turns to gold. And the story that she told was that when she came to work with me, she actually she was in a place of shame, because she felt like she had to keep all of her flaws behind a closed door, and she never could go to him and say, Hey, this isn’t working. Because she well, she could. It was her, like how she felt. So when she came to me, and I was like, like, let’s just lay it all on the table, and she was like, she said, Oh my god, I just felt like this massive weight as I just went, bang, here it is. Here it is all on the table, and we could start to work through it. So it is really important that we do show up like that. Of course, if that’s who we like, who we are, which the people in this audience are, it’s like we’re having, we’re humans, having a human experience. We’ve all been there. We’ve all done it, we’ve made the mistakes, and that’s how we’ve learned what we teach, because we’ve actually made the mistakes, right? Yeah,
Kathryn Thompson 14:14
totally. And the other other side of that is, is that, yes, we’ve all made mistakes. And when, when someone’s telling us that story, of, like, everything I touch is gold, and gold and I’m perfect, I’ve never made a mistake. Like, my spidey senses already go up and go, like, really, like, really,
Speaker 1 14:28
yeah, that’s right, that doesn’t even
Kathryn Thompson 14:31
seem real. But then the other downside of that is, is that when you do evolve, like, there was a big brand name who was, you know, talked a lot about her relationship. People might know who she is. Me just referencing this, they talked about her relationship. She talked a lot about her marriage, and how great her marriage was, and all the things, all the things, all the things, and then her marriage behind the scenes was falling apart. She didn’t know how to come forward and share that, because everybody knew this perfect marriage, even though we all. No, there’s no perfect marriage, perfect relationship, perfect business. And so when her marriage actually did fall apart, she got tons of backlash, because people were like, Well, how long? Like, your marriage just doesn’t fall apart in a day. You can’t build a business in a day, like, a million in a day, just out of the gate. So there. So it’s also that when you evolve, you change, and when things do happen, it makes it a lot harder to actually come out with it, because you’ve put this perfect persona on for so long,
Samantha Riley 15:29
totally. And there’s, there’s a real energetic barrier there as well. When you’re trying to keep things behind closed doors and really close it’s, it’s, it’s tangible. You can feel it. You can feel something’s off and it’s not, it’s not fun to be in that position, either. And I can say that because that was me thinking that everything had to be perfect, and just putting this wall up where I was not cold, but very stand offish, because I was just so afraid of people finding out that things weren’t perfect, like there was years ago, and I talk about it in my first book, but just letting that go, Oh my God, I feel so good. It’s just like, Yeah, okay, I haven’t got it together. I’m not perfect, but I can still help you, and we can still have a whole heap of fun along the way.
Kathryn Thompson 16:21
Yeah, yeah, which is such a beauty. It’s liberating. It’s very liberating. And for me, perfectionism coming out of corporate like that was a persona, an identity piece that I really just shed when I came into the online business and my company, because it was such a personal journey, then it was like, wow, like the perfectionism was stopping me in so many ways and blocking me energetically in so many ways.
Samantha Riley 16:48
Yeah, yeah, totally. So in your experience, what’s the difference between messaging that converts and messaging that conforms?
Kathryn Thompson 17:01
Ooh, great. So messaging to me that conforms is, for example, I have a client who’s very creative, expressively, like she wants to do, like storytelling and, you know, doesn’t want to sell the How to in five steps type of stuff, but she’s jogging between, do I need to package what I do in five simple steps and package it in these frameworks when the way I naturally express actually doesn’t fit that? It fits more of like, maybe a little bit more poetic, and maybe storytelling, and maybe video storytelling and all those sorts of things, conforming would feel like I’ve got to conform to the how to make it really simple make it palpable for people to understand when you’re actually not that. Or another example would be diluting your message when you are somebody who is a depth worker. So a lot of the people I work with are selling, quote, unquote, the intangible, or, you know, this deep, transformational work, and they’re trying to fit it into how to lose 50 pounds in 30 days, or how to make a million dollars in 2.2 seconds, they’re going, well, I can’t do that, but I have to do that to make it tangible so that it sells. That would be conforming is going against your natural way of expressing your authenticity, to try to fit a form that you know sells and you know works when it it actually is counterintuitive to the to your work and what your work is really here to do.
Samantha Riley 18:31
How do you then turn that message that’s not confirmed forming into something that’s understood by the audience? Because that’s the piece there, right? Yeah,
Kathryn Thompson 18:42
like, so rephrase that question. I just want to
Samantha Riley 18:45
make sure. So it’s very easy at in the market to understand lose 10 pounds in 10 days, because straight away, as a buyer, I go, I get that I can understand that that’s what I want. So if it doesn’t conform, how do we make sure that the message is being understood by our potential clients?
Kathryn Thompson 19:08
Yeah, so this is a great thing to sort of consider. If we’re doing depth work, if we’re selling the invisible, our audience is seeking that depth, right? And so they’re seeking more of an emotional connection, probably more of an understanding, more feeling seen. But when we try to conform and put it into one tangible tagline, it’s actually incongruent to what your people are looking for. So I go back to the what does it feel like, what does it look like, what does it sound like? And then can we infuse that emotion? Can we infuse that compassion? It might look a little more long form, but it’s still understandable, because it’s more of a feeling. And when they feel understood, because they’re going well, I don’t I don’t really just want to lose the weight. I want to feel good in my body. Or I want to maybe the body shame I’m carrying, so I don’t just want to lose the weight, but if you’re just selling weight loss, and your audience is actually seeking something deeper, you’ve already missed them all together. They they’re like, this person won’t understand me because they’re going to put me through these rigid diet programs that I’ve already tried 100 times. Please speak to the emotional. Connect with them on an emotional level and level, and that’s why we need to go nuanced, and it’ll still be understandable. And we can do it through storytelling. We can do it through our own lived experience. We can do it through client stories, that sort of thing that makes it understandable but also makes them feel seen in the process.
Samantha Riley 20:39
Mm, okay. I love that. How does someone get to that place of I’ve got this thing that’s on, like, not tangible. I What, like, what makes me different is, and I hear this a lot, and there is nothing wrong with this, because this is me too. Like, I care more. I’m not like other people. They’re, you know, it’s, it’s not tangible. How do people go to figuring out what’s actually different, beyond saying that,
Kathryn Thompson 21:11
yeah, beyond saying that you’re more like compassionate, more caring, yeah? More
Samantha Riley 21:16
understanding. Totally, yeah. So,
Kathryn Thompson 21:19
so the a great way would be to, like, showcase how you actually walk people through processes like the words, I’m more compassionate, I’m more caring. Sure, show me. So we need to demonstrate and show people what that actually means and translate that so that might look like, you know, a client came to me and they felt a lot of shame in the other program that they were in, because they never felt like they could fully express themselves. This is how I met my client in that shame, and how I walked her through it. Then people go, Wow, because a lot of people feel the shame, or they feel the guilt, or they feel like they’re failures, and they don’t want to ask the questions. I have lots of clients that come to me and they’re like, Wow, so you’re not going to tell me I have to post seven times a week and, like, three times a day or whatever. And I’m like, Well, not if you don’t want to. Let’s work around that, you know. But they’ve always been met with you just have to do it. You just have to push through this is the way business is right. So then they feel wrong for even asking that question. So it’s if you show that in your stories, in your content, then people go, Oh, I’m not just she’s not just telling me she’s compassionate. She’s now shown me how she walks people through, and how she meets people where they’re at, and that she fully listens, and all those sorts of things. So being able to reflect the differences in the way that you coach compared to maybe how other people coach, or how they mentor.
Samantha Riley 22:46
Yeah, yeah, cool. So for people that have been playing it safe with their their messaging, with their content, with what it is that they want to share, because they’re afraid to ruffle feathers, what’s one bold move that they can take to stand out more authentically, or even one, one move that they can make to get them closer to being able to share, you know, a way that’s authentic to them?
Kathryn Thompson 23:15
Yeah, great question. So there’s two things that I want to share. One, I think, is looking at that point of resistance, or the points of resistance that you’re feeling in your industry, in your business, in the way you see messaging and content out there, and then ask yourself what that point of resistance is telling you about what truly matters that will reflect Your deeper values. And then, can you share something from that? And the other piece of it is, is, what aren’t you saying that other people are thinking, but you’re too afraid to say right now in this moment, or you feel like other people might be too afraid to express. Can you put that out there? And can you share something about that, because it’s usually the the unspoken things, the things that none of us want to talk about, none of us want to share, that actually is the truth. Like sharing something that’s very truthful is is bold, and it doesn’t have to be hugely polarizing. It could literally be just a truth. Hey, this is what I was feeling lately, and this is how I’m kind of working through it, or something along those lines. Or here’s something that I really believe that I don’t agree with, or I don’t align with, maybe the way the status quo is is doing it. So that would be a it doesn’t have to be loud, it doesn’t have to be like, Look at me. It can literally just be speaking some form of truth, and then creating the safety in your body to do it. Because when we do share something vulnerable, oftentimes our nervous system can go into that fight or flight, freezer, Fauci vulnerable, yeah,
Samantha Riley 24:53
and for reason too, so because obviously we’ve got this thing of like, we want to share all things. Particularly but we’re living in a cancel culture, like there is two Australian cooks, bakers, chefs, recipe people online in Australia that have just done this massive, huge blow up in the last couple of days over a recipe, which I look at it and go, that’s a recipe that people have been making since like, 1901, come on. You’re two millennials that are fighting over who got the recipe first. That recipe came way before both of you the cancel. Like, I’m reading these comments, I’ve actually had to, like, move away from it, because it’s just like, I’m taking this person’s side, or I’m taking this person’s side, but there’s actually no rationale over the actual conversation. It’s just like I’m taking her or her, and to me, that’s not the actual conversation. The conversation is like everyone just backed down for a moment. It’s probably a 1901 woman’s weekly recipe to be honest. Yeah,
Kathryn Thompson 26:01
yeah. And it’s so true that we do live in a in a cancel culture, and that’s why I say creating safety, like in the body, so like a bold move, quite literally, could be speaking one piece of your truth, and maybe it’s like writing it in a journal, and you’re not actually even putting it and airing it to the end, right? Like, just jot these things, these things down, and eventually, when you build that muscle, right? But also knowing that we do live in a cancel culture, and we everybody has their own perspective, and can we look at it that way, and that I can’t please everybody there might eventually hate me and all of that. And if you’re sending in your authenticity and your integrity, then, to me, you can feel good in your body about what you’re sharing. It’s if you’re in integrity. And so who knows how this will shake out, like maybe, maybe somebody did steal it before somebody else, who knows where she said it’s like it was a recipe that probably came from, from women’s weekly in 1901, yeah, yeah,
Samantha Riley 27:06
yeah, yeah. What I love about actually, that was gold of maybe just writing in a journal, because being able to, we were talking it right at the beginning of the episode about iteration and, you know, just trialing things and stretching the boundaries that all needs to happen. But maybe it can happen behind closed doors. It doesn’t need to happen always by putting it out. I, I honestly believe that sometimes we do because we need to to see what comes back. But just, you know, journaling and starting to feel, does this feel aligned? Or, oh, maybe it was a bit off. That’s not exactly what I thought. And being able to work through that yourself, so that then you feel like, actually, I’ve got to a point where I 100% know my body this is, you know, you get the goose bumps and you’re like, No, I’m ready. I’m ready to stick my flag on the mountain and totally share this. So I think that’s a really great piece of advice. Yeah, what would you say to the business owners and entrepreneurs that feel that they need to choose between being themselves and being successful?
Kathryn Thompson 28:16
Ooh, I would tell them that there isn’t an either or, so I get this question a lot, do I need to do this or do I need to this? And oftentimes it’s not an either or. To me, it’s a blending and an integration of both. To me, the more integrated and integral you are with what you’re doing, the more successful you are. I think it’s rewriting what we think success is. We don’t need to sacrifice ourselves to be successful. We don’t need to put ourselves through the ringer to make the money, attract the clients, all the things, to me, that’s a byproduct of us living in that authenticity. And for anyone listening, you might be at this stage right now where you’ve built success and you’re not feeling fulfilled, and you’re like, wait a minute, I’m so far off my center. How did I get here? It’s about not having to sacrifice to get to where you want to go.
Samantha Riley 29:10
Success and fulfillment are two totally different things, and sometimes they can feel the same and sometimes they can feel worlds apart. Yeah. Love that, yeah, yeah. Is there ever a risk of being too different or too bold in your messaging?
Kathryn Thompson 29:33
I wouldn’t say that, but I’m somebody who is so attracted to people who are very different, like, like, musicians, artists, right? I’m like, the more unique, and the more different, and the more weird you are in your in, in how you are, the more attracted I am to it. Now, one might say that maybe you’re. Weirdness or what doesn’t take off right now in this moment, or whatever. But I always come back to the greatest freedom you can have as being your authentic self, and so if you’re fully embodying your weirdness, your uniqueness, your difference, to me, that’s the greatest freedom we can have. It’s when we’re not in when we are sacrificing who we are to achieve the success, accolades, whatever it might be when we’re not actually truly free in ourselves. And so I don’t think there is too much of a risk you just might be more prone to backlash, or you might be more prone to judgment. And so it really is about again, being comfortable in your skin and being able to hold that that space and create safety in your body, around that that would be my only thing is that you probably stand out more, and that just means more people might point out your weirdness and difference, but more polarizing.
Samantha Riley 30:49
Yeah, there’s definitely not a problem being polarizing, because I think that whilst it pushes people away faster or more, it also has the effect of the people that are like, pulled to like, attracted towards you more as well. Like, it’s more of a ways like, more towards as well, because those people are like, oh my goodness, someone finally gets me. Like, this is my person. This is my tribe. But you do need to have a, I don’t know, either a thick skin or blinkers, and just understand that that’s what’s happening, and that if you want to play in a space where you’re thinking, I just want everyone to like me, then you’re going to have to be more vanilla, like there. You can’t have both. So where you were talking before, like, there’s, there’s not a this or that. It’s always, you know, it’s an end. I think I feel for me that in that situation, it does have to be an either or, what do you think? What are your thoughts on that?
Kathryn Thompson 31:50
Yeah, you’ve made a great point there in terms of, like, if you’re wanting to, like, please everybody, or you’re wanting to, sort of, like, tread lightly in the market, you don’t want to ruffle too many feathers you’re then, then there is more of a chance of being more vanilla if you’re if you’re really embracing that authenticity and that uniqueness, there is a polarization which will repel people, but then vacuum people to you in a lot of ways, like you’ll magnetically attract people, but it’s being comfortable in your own skin to be able to hold that judgment, all of that, and that’s where I think there is an either or. But I think for a lot of us, we probably want to move to the authenticity. It’s just it’s hard to move there, because we haven’t created, maybe that safety within our own self to be able to stand in our own skin.
Samantha Riley 32:45
So apart from journaling, which you mentioned before, is there anything that you can suggest for people that want to feel more comfortable in their own skin, or, you know, traverse what we’re talking about here? Yeah,
Kathryn Thompson 32:59
so to me, that’s a lot of like, somatic work. Tapping, for me, has been like gold, but that, I know lots of people are like, I didn’t really like tapping. I liked this, right? So I think it’s finding a somatic routine or ritual within your world that resonates with you, because it’s all body work, right? It’s our emotions. What’s going on in our body is, is actually what informs our thoughts, and then our thoughts start to run wild. And so if we can calm our nervous system and we can calm our body, then the the thoughts, the ideas, the fears, all of that doesn’t run rampant. And so for me, it’s, it’s it was, it’s tapping and meditation and journaling are sort of my three practices. It doesn’t have to be a lot, but it’s somatic work that I’ve done that’s really helped me not be reactive to the criticism or the judgment.
Samantha Riley 33:52
I know for me definitely, I’m a very fiery sacral generator, and I used to when I saw things just like, answer straight away. Like, if I’m talking specifically social media or getting an email that that doesn’t feel very nice, my used to be was just like, go straight in. I very much learned to shut laptop, walk away for two hours, breathe, have a shower, then go back to it. So for me, that’s definitely something that I had to learn.
Kathryn Thompson 34:25
Yeah, and I’m a fiery sacral manifesting generator with a lot of fire in my astrology. And so I was the same, very reactive. My body was reactive. I would just like, I would respond instantaneously, or I’d have an opinion of everything. And then through the work, right? I’ve I’m a lot more lean back in my approach now, and far less reactive in business as a result.
Samantha Riley 34:50
Yeah, yeah. Love that. So if someone is listening to this and they feel like, oh, I sound like a generic coach, or, you know, a generic person, where should they begin right now to find their voice and their message again?
Kathryn Thompson 35:06
Yeah, so I always say that people have their voices within them. It’s just a matter of uncovering it. So it’s not about finding it. It’s about really like pulling out that you know what they stand for, what they want to write about, all those sorts of things. So I think the first place that I would start is like, how, what is my natural way of expressing like, what comes naturally to me, whether that’s spoken word, written word, like, what is it? Let’s let’s get there first, and then let’s start to unpack like, what are my unique perspectives around the industry that I’m in. What are my unique thoughts about the world? What are my unique thoughts about life in general? Because I think sometimes we compartmentalize our voice into like, this is my business voice, and this is my business message, and this is my offer message. But usually our worldview, our perspectives, are the thing that’s informing our voice in the first place. And so to me, it’s like uncovering what is that unique perspective, or perspectives that you have? What are your unique values that you carry? And that’s going to inform the message that’s going to inform your voice. Lots of clients will say to me the same thing, like, how do I find my voice? How do I unpack this? And then when I say to them, well, like, how do you want to show up? How do you want to express yourself, they have no problem answering that question, but it’s usually they’re looking through the lens of what they think they should do. And so love to separate the marketing, social media, all of it, and just do that journaling work, and who cares how it fits into the business, how it fits into marketing? Into marketing, how it fits into the squares on Instagram. Just it. You got to start there first and remove all the business stuff out of it, because the business stuff is just going to dilute and water down, because you’re going to try to fit it through what you how you should do it. And so separate the two and then bring them together. Now, how can I deliver this? How can I do it in a way that’s still authentic to me? What is that sort of voice? Voice, am I humorous? Am I funny? Am I fiery? Am I a disruptor like that will come through when you start to uncover your unique perspectives, your values.
Samantha Riley 37:20
I love that. Do you feel that that’s something that someone can do all on their own?
Kathryn Thompson 37:29
That’s a great question. Yeah. You know what? I think having a sounding board is like, really great. Whether that’s with like, a human right, you’re having that, that dialog or whatnot. I think it’s really great to start alone. I think the process starting in isolation like tuning into your world, your aura, because I think we can be easily swayed, especially if we’re trying to, like, uncover what that true, authentic voice is. So I always say to start there, like, start alone. First, like, start in your own isolation, and then once you start to uncover things, bring that forward, to bounce off of people, and then, yeah, move from there. But I do think doing in combination is beneficial.
Samantha Riley 38:16
I love that. And the reason I asked it is because one of the things I picked up when you were talking then was, it’s almost like we need permission from from someone external to almost go, it’s okay. That’s what you really want. It’s okay.
Kathryn Thompson 38:33
Yes, and that’s the thing that often I reflect back to clients, right? Is that I’ll say to them, they’ll come to me going, I want this. And I will say, Cool. And oftentimes I’ll use things like astrology, human design or gene keys to literally just say that’s actually in your chart. And then they’re like, Oh, good, okay. It’s like, the proof they need, yeah, the certainty they need, like, Okay, I’m not out to lunch thinking that this is how I want to be. And so it 100% that is just having that person to hold space and witness you and go, yeah, it’s okay. This is it. Yeah. Follow that. Yeah.
Samantha Riley 39:08
That’s what I love about human design, because you can look at it and go, Oh, it is there in my chart. I’m not going crazy. I’m not doing something that’s totally off the off the planet. Yeah, yes. I love that. Now you’ve got a free quiz called What’s your elevated edge. Can you just share a little bit about, like, who that’s for and why people would want to potentially do that?
Kathryn Thompson 39:32
Yeah, amazing. So this quiz came out of like, a pure love and joy and intention to, again, provide people with what is really their uniqueness, and give them sort of the proof, without them sitting in front of me that like, probably what they’re feeling and what they want to do, and how they want to do it is they’re not crazy so and that they’re not out to lunch for Yeah, feeling this way. So it’s just sort of that reassurance, but it’s a beautifully. Crafted quiz for anyone that is either new in business, that’s like, I don’t know what makes me different or unique, or someone that’s further down the line, who might be evolving, and it’s like, I don’t really know what makes me different now I’ve got all this skill set, I just don’t know how to kind of pull it, pull it together. It’s a really beautiful quiz for either stage. And what you get isn’t just like a one pager. It is so in depth with like, you know, your energy, like how to show up. It shows you like, different ways to show up on social media based on like, what your unique elevated edge is. It’s like, gives you comparison to the type of leaders that are out there that like you probably would resonate with, or like, you know, align with in a lot of ways, it’s like such a beautifully crafted, intentional quiz to really highlight what makes you different and unique, but on a very nuanced level, it’s not just a generic one pager that’s like, you’re this kind of thing.
Samantha Riley 40:59
Yeah, yeah, you’re a queen. I love that. We’ll pop the link for that just below wherever you’re listening or watching. Also, you can find Catherine through her podcast, be the sought after entrepreneur, where there’s way more conversations like the one that we’ve had today. Catherine, what’s one thing that you really want to leave our listeners with today that just make we’ll have them exploring something new that can take their message to a new depth.
Kathryn Thompson 41:36
Yeah, I think that it is the curiosity to really, truly understand the humans that you’re wanting to connect with below the surface, so below their identity of being a mom or a business owner, below the surface of the traditional demographics that we have out there, that we are all nuanced beings, and so the more Curious you can get with who those people are, through conversation, through listening, through Inquisition, whatever it might be that is going to take your messaging to a whole nother level, because 95% of people that are messaging now are very much living on the surface. So if you can even connect on that deeper level, even one layer deeper, you will stand out amongst the crowd in terms of people going, wow, this person actually gets me, understands me, sees me. So to me, it’s the nuance. Go, go belief below the surface, just a little bit and just get a little bit more curious and inquisitive, and then trust your own gut and intuition of how you want to display it, how you want to show up, because that’s not going to lead you astray.
Samantha Riley 42:44
And not only will you feel more fulfilled and more alive in the work that you’re doing, but your audience is craving this depth. You know, where the we just don’t want to do shallow anymore, right? We just, we’re starving for totally, totally, yeah, you can see it just pouring from both of us right now.
Kathryn Thompson 43:08
Like, no, I’m like, We’re starving to show me who you are. Tell me something real, like, give me realness, you know, and, and it doesn’t have to be perfect. Like, I think I’m more drawn to like, the off the cuff conversations or the less produced stuff, because it’s like, I want to know who you are. I want to know what brings you alive, not the surface level sales taglines that we’ve been sold for so long. Yeah.
Samantha Riley 43:37
Yeah, yeah. Kathryn, thank you so much for coming and riffing with me today. It’s been an absolute pleasure talking about this and yeah, just really I feel alive after this conversation. So thank you,
Kathryn Thompson 43:50
amazing. Amazing. Thank you for having me.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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