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Did you know most rebrands actually weaken your authority because they’re fixing the part of your business that wasn’t broken in the first place? Let’s pull back the curtain on what actually builds a powerful brand, and why most entrepreneurs are chasing the wrong kind of visibility.
In this episode, brand strategist Beatrice Gutknecht dismantles some of the most common branding myths coaches and consultants are still holding onto, starting with the idea that your logo matters more than your positioning.
We dig into what truly builds brand equity, how to create an unforgettable experience for your audience, and the exact things to focus on if you want your brand to stand out, without sounding like every other AI-written post.
Your brand isn’t your colors, fonts, or fancy logo. It’s how people experience you, through every touchpoint, every team member, every decision.
If you’re ready to build a brand that actually means something, and moves people to choose you, you’ll want to hit play now.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- The true definition of a brand (04:47)
- Why rebrands can hurt more than they help (06:32)
- How to reverse-engineer your positioning from your values and business goals before you touch your visuals (10:52 )
- Using your competitors’ positioning as a smart gap-finding strategy (13:41)
- Using archetypes to build brand voice and help your team and content stay consistent (20:07)
- Personal brand vs. business brand (22:08)
- How to push back on industry norms in a way that magnetizes your people without becoming polarizing (28:44)
- Using AI as an idea-starter and not a crutch (31:55)
- How internal brand buy-in changes everything from customer experience to team culture (44:04)
Want alignment as you scale? Let’s chat.
Table of Contents
The Branding Mistake That’s Quietly Costing You Growth
Why Most Rebrands Fail (And What to Do Instead)
Sounding Like Everyone Else Is a Business Risk
Internal Branding: The Part Everyone Skips
Positioning Is the New Branding
Where To Direct Your Focus Now
The Branding Mistake That’s Costing You Growth
If you’re thinking about a rebrand because your business feels stuck, flat, or forgotten, there’s a good chance you’re solving the wrong problem.
And I say that with love.
Because the truth is, your brand probably doesn’t need a visual facelift. What it needs is a sharper message, a tighter position in the market, and a whole lot more alignment behind the scenes.
Let’s talk about what actually moves the needle, and where most well-meaning coaches and consultants go wrong.
Your Logo Isn’t the Problem
For starters, we need to stop pretending that branding means fonts, colors, or a cute new logo. Those are decoration, not direction.
Your real brand is how people remember you. It’s how they describe you when you’re not in the room. It’s the gut feeling they get when they land on your site, read your post, or hop on a call with you.
And if that gut feeling is “She sounds like every other coach I’ve seen this week,” then we’ve got a positioning problem, not a branding one.
Why Most Rebrands Fail (And What to Do Instead)
If you’re rebranding because you’re bored or feel like “it’s time for a fresh look,” pause. A surface-level refresh won’t fix deeper brand confusion. In fact, it can erode the recognition and equity you’ve already built.
Instead, zoom out and ask yourself:
What does your brand actually stand for?
What do you want to be known for?
How are you currently being positioned in your space?
Where are you unintentionally blending in?
This is where strategic repositioning comes in. When done right, it reshapes your brand’s place in the market, without losing what you’ve already built.
You stay recognisable, but more relevant and more memorable.
Sounding Like Everyone Else Is a Business Risk
Wanna know the fastest way to become invisible in a crowded market? Just sound like everyone else.
If your messaging is built around vague terms like “empower,” “transform,” or “authentic,” chances are you’re fading into the noise. And it’s not because your work isn’t powerful, but because your positioning isn’t.
The fix isn’t louder content. It’s clearer positioning. When you nail that, your voice sharpens, your visuals feel aligned, and your brand starts doing the heavy lifting.
Internal Branding: The Part Everyone Skips
Your brand isn’t just external. It shows up in how your team communicates, in how customer service responds, and in how your offers are sold.
This is something a lot of people miss.
If your team doesn’t live the brand internally, it won’t show up consistently on the outside. And that’s where real trust is built.
Want your brand to scale with you? Involve your team. Define not just your values, but what they look like in everyday actions. That’s where real brand consistency comes from.
Positioning Is the New Branding
Branding doesn’t start with design. It starts with clarity.
What do you do that no one else can claim?
Who are you here to serve?
Why does your offer matter more today than it did six months ago?
When you lock in your positioning, everything else falls into place: messaging, offers, hiring, even content. Suddenly, you’re not marketing harder. You’re marketing smarter, because now your brand finally knows what it stands for and who it’s speaking to.
And the market feels it.
Where To Direct Your Focus Now
- Your brand is a perception, not a palette.
- Rebranding your visuals won’t fix unclear positioning.
- Sounding like every other coach is the fastest way to disappear.
- Internal branding is just as important as your public message.
- Strong positioning creates trust, traction, and authority.
If you’re ready to stop hiding behind brand tweaks and actually build something unforgettable, start with what you’re saying, not what it looks like.
ABOUT BEATRICE GUTKNECHT
Badassery is defined as the behavior, characteristics, or actions regarded as formidably impressive and that’s what Beatrice brings to the table, and how she sees businesses deserve to be seen. To stand out. From the inside out through practical actions and realignment, not with 69-page documents, pretty designs, or templates.
WHERE TO FIND BEATRICE GUTKNECHT
- Website: https://beacons.ai/badasserybyb
- Website: https://www.badasserybyb.com
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/beatricegutknecht/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/badasserybyb/?hl=en
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@badasserybyb
- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@badasserybyb
- Podcast: The Art of Positioning
- The Badass Mob (Newsletter): https://badasserybyb.com/the-badass-mob-newsletter/
CONNECT WITH SAMANTHA RILEY
Instagram @thesamriley
TRANSCRIPTION
Samantha Riley 0:02
Welcome to today’s episode of Business Growth Lab. I’m looking forward to chatting to Beatrice Gutknecht. She’s here with me to talk about all things brand strategy at badassery by b and she’s the host of the out of positioning podcast. So welcome Beatrice to the show.
Beatrice Gutknecht 0:20
Thanks so much for having me on Samantha. I’m so excited.
Samantha Riley 0:24
Me too. We I can’t even remember how we connected now, maybe LinkedIn, I probably should have looked it up before we chatted, but we have chatted before, and we got on like a house on fire. You are an Aussie living in Spain. Why don’t you tell it? How did you end up in Spain?
Beatrice Gutknecht 0:45
That, in itself, is, that’s a story. It’s pretty much life, life to me, that’s great at, it’s like most basic point, that’s what happened. So I left Australia, God, it’s probably been maybe 15 years, and moved to Myanmar. At first it was love, but then I fell in love with the country, and stayed there for 10 years, until the military coup and my dad passed away, and I was like, Okay, then, lack of opportunities, and it’s just yay. It just needed, like, that move, and I needed to take care of things around, like my dad’s passing. So I chose Thailand because, like, I’d been there frequently, it’s just across the border, etcetera. And stayed there for another two years. And at that time, the visa just kept on getting, like, more difficult, more like, painful. I was like, you know what, like at that time, when I was there, I just started the business as well. And I was like, starting a business by itself is enough stress. Oh, that’s right. Like, about, like, visas, whether I can, like, go back into the country, and I’m like, nope, nope, nope. So being half like, EU citizen, like my mom, she was Portuguese.
Beatrice Gutknecht 2:40
And pick a country which was, like, you know, similar sort of culture, similar sort of temperatures, even though, still get winter here, which everyone else in the world, like, you know, people from UK, people from Australia, like, but it’s so nice you’re in winter. And I’m like, not for me. I spent the last 12 years in Southeast Asia. So yeah.
Samantha Riley 3:05
Because I don’t think of Spain as being somewhere with cold winters.
Beatrice Gutknecht 3:13
It probably gets down to 12 degrees.
Samantha Riley 3:18
Yeah. Okay, that’s cold for me too.
Beatrice Gutknecht 3:25
It’s cold and the apartments here, insulation is nonexistent. The window panes sound proofing, also non existent. So it gets like, a little cold, yeah, it gets really cold. And then Summer’s here, as now we were just talking about before we were, it’s like, but supposedly, there’s another part yesterday, like, a couple of hours away that hit 45 degrees.
Samantha Riley 4:03
Wow. I’m originally from Adelaide, so I know 45 degrees, it is hot. It is really hot.
Beatrice Gutknecht 4:15
Yeah, no, hard, pass hard, like, I like warms, but not that warm.
Samantha Riley 4:21
Yeah, that’s past warm. That’s like cooking. Let’s leave the weather behind. Let’s jump into branding. Now you are a brand strategist at Badassery by B and up, like people in the other parts of the world you know would say bad ass. However you say it, what is that word? What does that word mean to you, and how did you choose it?
Beatrice Gutknecht 4:47
So, of course, there is the common perception around how it means. And you know, because bad ass etcetera, like, it’s kind of almost associated to, well, but if you look it up, the actual meaning is taking actions or doing something to an exceptional level. And that’s pretty much what I bring to Badassery. That’s what I want to help clients that I work with like, hey, let’s make you exceptional in the industry, not just be another one and push back on these norms.
Samantha Riley 5:33
Yeah, I love that. Now this, but I’m going to ask this, and it made me giggle when I said to you, like, this is going to be easy. We’re talking about branding. I love this topic. And you said, Oh, for goodness sakes, don’t, let’s not talk about logos. And that made me laugh, because I’m on your wagon. But branding isn’t just a logo. It’s like this little, tiny, minuscule part of it. But if I was to explain branding, I probably wouldn’t even really talk too much about a logo. A lot of people obsess over logos and the visuals that go along with that. You also talk about flashy logos aren’t building real brands. So number one, how do you define a brand? Like, what’s the definition of a brand? And can you talk about what actually moves the needle in growing a brand?
Beatrice Gutknecht 6:32
So a brand is the perception. It’s how you’re remembered, and at this point, because there is so much in the marketplace in any given industry, right, any of these visuals aren’t going to do a lot. In fact, I’m very strongly against the idea of rebranding as it’s known. So like, changing up the visuals, changing up the name, etc, just because you’re like, Okay, I’m kind of like feeling bored. It’s like, there’s no traction with my brand. Changing those visuals, changing like that is not going to change anything with your business. In fact, it might do more damage than good, because at a certain point of doing business, you’ve become known for something, regardless of whether you desire that or not, and by changing that to say, for example, if you change your name or if you change your logo, you lose that traction that you’ve built up. So what is better in that case, is taking your positioning in the market, and having a look at how that can be shifted, be it based on the buyer journey, based on competition, based on the industry. All these shoulds that we’re like looking at everybody else is doing this because we should, but is there any actual reasoning behind that? You know, those are some of the areas that I look at in terms of, like, Hey, how can we look at repositioning you so that you’re not just another one, but you’re still staying in the known? I’m not saying like, go and create a new category, because that in itself is dangerous. Uh-huh, right? Reposition. And then the most important thing after that is like, Okay, how do we strategically implement that in your business? And I’m not just saying like marketing, I’m saying, look at when you’re hiring. What does that look like in the hiring process? How do we make sure that the people that come on board, they’re attuned to the values of the business, to the positioning, the sales, the marketing. You know, somebody comes into the customer service, you know, or they come into the showroom. And if people are so focused on just being there for their hours, their nine to five, or the eight to whatever it is, right, and they’re just looking at clocking in and out, you’re not going to get the feedback that will actually help you pivot and improve your brand. You know, somebody comes in and they’re like, consistently, people like, you know, I’m just so annoyed with this. Like, this is just so irks, but that information doesn’t get through. You have a gap there. Sure this is the process that I’m focused on. Like, let’s reposition, let’s make sure it operationally is effective, like, not adding work for people, but making sure that that adapts and that’s shown there.
Samantha Riley 10:17
So if so you said that you don’t believe in rebranding. If someone’s already got their logo, they’ve got their visuals, you’re saying, don’t change that. And you’re looking to elevate your brand. What comes first the positioning, or you talked about the internal branding there, like, how? How do you start to rework this? What comes first?
Beatrice Gutknecht 10:41
Before I go into like, you can adapt your visuals, but I’m saying leave that for later. When you’re implementing to make sure that it aligns.
Samantha Riley 10:52
Ah, I like that, yes, because in my brain, what I was thinking when you’re saying that is like, you know, like the original Google logo was different to what it is. Now still had the same colors, but just had a bit of a judge, bit of an update.
Beatrice Gutknecht 11:09
Exactly. So that’s what I mean. I’m like, not saying just completely delete out your logo. It’s like, adapt it based on doing these things. And to answer your question there, it’s very much looking internally first of all, before we go into the position, because there’s no point in me, like, hey, how do we position without knowing what are the goals that you have for your business? What are the values? And I’m not saying values for the sake of, like, putting them up on your website and then it just it means nothing, right?
Samantha Riley 11:48
Like lip service.
Beatrice Gutknecht 11:50
Lip service, you know, things like authenticity, impact and like, what, what? What do those actually mean to you? They have to actually represent how your team work. And the more accurate you are on that, the better. No, you wanted to actually, people to actually feel something when they see those words you want to see it in the day to day operations. So focusing on like, okay, these are your goals. This is your values, your mission, etcetera, right? Pointing that in understanding, okay, what is the position in the market, what’s going on with your competitors? What’s going with your competition, your buyer, etcetera. Like, what is that situation? Understanding that, and then we can go in and like, Alright, these are our current points of differentiation. Are these real points of differentiation, or is it just like, Okay, we do better service? Because, should that not just be a bite, like a baseline, like, better service providing impact again, like it’s, it’s a fluffy thing, you I know it’s always going to be past that initial answer that we give, right? You have to kind of dig in a little bit deeper and hone in on that to get to that differentiation, to get to that positioning. So this is how I started.
Samantha Riley 13:41
You mentioned competitors. How much do you lean into looking at your competitors? Because personally, I think it can almost unstick you if that’s I can’t think of another way to say it. There’s going to be a more eloquent way. But I feel like sometimes we can get caught up looking so much at competitors that you sort of start to merge into a version of them. So it’s something that I actually put my blinkers on and actually sort of don’t really pay attention too much anymore.
Beatrice Gutknecht 14:19
I would recommend not going too deep, but that awareness there is very important. So spending the time to look at two or three competitors, how they were, things, where, how their position themselves, that gives you a clear indicator of, say, for example, the language. Are you using very similar language to them? How are they positioned? Are they, if you have a look at them from not your perspective, but like, from a customer’s perspective, perspective, do they sound similar? Do you kind of align with those? How did they appear on different locations? Is there a gap in places where they appear? So I would recommend definitely having a look at them. Just, you need to have that awareness to be able to see if there’s any gaps. To see if there’s any holes that you’re falling into that you could potentially leverage. Instead of being like, no, let’s not sound like the rest of the competition. I can give a great example here of one of the clients where we changed that totally. Yeah, yeah. So one of my clients there in the architectural door and hardware space, so basically, the door knobs, the cabinet handles these like fine pieces. And when we were looking at their competition, we noticed they all sounded exactly the same. They have slightly different like, you know, one is more feminine, one is like, more like, but the wording, the positioning, everything was identical, right? And so what we did was, okay, what’s the biggest complaint that they faced with many of their clients? And it was that by the time they got considered the building, door frames, the doors, the entryways had already been built, and it had been like, built with the builder grade door. So there wasn’t a lot in terms of customization. So say, for example, that home owner or that designer, they’re like, Okay, you know, we wanted this kind of idea, and they showed them like, you know, an Instagram page, beautiful, Pinterest, they couldn’t do it because that had already been installed. So we’re like, okay, all of the in, like the rest of the industry, they were only being considered at that point. And I asked them, Okay, but say, for example, best best condition, what? When would be the best time to be considered to avoid that issue? And it was when the designers were drawing up these entryways. So at that point, you know, even the target audience changes, but we need to push further than that, right? Like, it’s like, how do we make the product relevant to them? Why should they even care? And we’re like, Okay, what is it that they’re concerned about, and it was being considered as the number one, because, again, in their industry, like in the designer world, there’s a lot of competition, there’s a lot of like, trying to stay up to date. And so there was a gap. We’re like, okay, how can we be the resource at that specific point in time to make sure that any client’s eyes, they’re pushed up higher, right? It’s not, we’re trying to sell door knobs and handles. We’re being that resource so they’re no longer competing with the others in the industry who all have the same kind of messaging. It’s moved them earlier. It’s changed their messaging. It’s changed how they operate, and that shifts people recognize that. You know, there’s so many ways that that can be done, be it with social media, be it, you know, even with podcasters, we’re doing now, get designers on board and be like, hey, you know what? What are you facing? What are the trends that you’re seeing? And then suddenly start getting seen in their radar.
Samantha Riley 19:18
I love that. I love that so much. What about for founders, you know, the business owners, the leaders that are trying to figure out where their personal brand ends and where their business, actually, cut that out. Really, I’m going to go back one. Sorry. That’s so cool. I know that you talk about archetypes helping business owners embody that brown brand voice. How do you bring archetypes in, and how do you do it in a way that’s strategic and personal, but still taking into account what you were just talking about?
Beatrice Gutknecht 20:07
So the way that I approach archetypes and to recap, I mean, this, this entire process, it should be enjoyable. It should be fun. It should not be easy, you know, you’re thinking through a lot and really questioning a lot. But the way that I approach these archetypes is going into choosing characters, be it from books or from movies or from TV shows, pick two or three characters that you most resonate. Okay, what are the attributes? They’re attributes that resonate. What would that look like? Say, for example, if that specific character was working with your customers or your clients? What would that conversation sound like? What would that go and you’re putting those characters together and kind of building in, like a little baby of the three, right? Like pulling out those best elements, the ones that resonate with you, with the way that your business operates, and making that into the voice. How? How would imagining what that baby would sound like as you know, as you’re writing your content, as you’re writing up the website, etc, as you’re getting your team involved to make sure that, like they can, they can actually visualize that archetype, rather than, you know, putting some sign, like some name that we’ve created 20, 30, 40 years ago with archetypes, right? So it’s making it very relatable and linking up that positioning, etc, with them.
Samantha Riley 22:08
Where’s the line between the business brand, which you talked about with the hardware and the doors and, you know, the windows to the archetype and your personal brand? Like, where does one begin and one end? As in, where does the personal brand begin and end? And where does the business brand begin and end? And how do you find that balance of both or or is there both?
Beatrice Gutknecht 22:36
I would say it depends on your business and your approach to the business, because if we have a look at any of the bigger brands, etc, the personalities, often case, say, for example, Richard Branson has a bigger following and has a bigger connection than, say, for example, Virgin and its brand, right? So it depends on how much you really want to get involved here. Excuse me, you’re good. It depends on how much you really want to be involved, how much you want your team to be involved on the front side, you know, the visual side. And of course, the more human it is, the stronger the connection will be. At this point, I see brands that are forward with AI, pictures or stock pictures, it doesn’t receive the same kind of connection that, say, for example, a founder led brand might have, or one where you can see what the team is doing. Or another option is a mascot. Take on a mascot, give it a voice, give it that little baby archetype voice, and then that way you’re consistent with that voice. But the point is that there should be one clear voice, and you need to decide on what fits how you run the business best.
Samantha Riley 24:25
For anyone that hasn’t seen Beatrice’s logo, she’s got a kangaroo with sunglasses and, I think, a baseball bat. How did you come up with that? Like, I mean, that’s not an archetype, obviously, because I’ve never seen any kangaroos running around with a baseball bat. But, like, I’m really intrigued, because with everything you’ve talked about so far, I think that this is a great, not reminder, but it really shows how you can really lean into something that’s quite unique.
Beatrice Gutknecht 25:08
So Roo, my mascot, my little sidekick in Badassery, is the one that you’re talking about there with the baseball bat and the shades. She actually came after the badass street name and deciding on that. There were a couple of reasons. One on LinkedIn, this was a couple years at least ago. There was this, this trend of, like, people having little emojis next to their name. So I did a poll at that time. I was like, okay, you know what, what kind of emoji would best suit? Or, like, what kind of animal would best suit? And I picked, like, a few different, and I said, like, okay, my background is Australian. And everybody was like, Kangaroo King, right hanger. I was like, alright, okay. So I was like, that that happened. And later on, when I went into like, you know, development logo and the brand, I was like, okay, you know what like, let’s lean into that heritage. Let’s learn it, lean into, like, the that Aussie side, which I’m sure you also know that, working with people overseas, in other countries, they’re like, oh, you know Australia, like, you know.
Samantha Riley 26:34
Is there kangaroos in the street? Do you catch, do you ride a kangaroo to school? Yeah, I’ve heard it all.
Beatrice Gutknecht 26:43
Exactly. It’s a …
Samantha Riley 26:45
Way fascinated by it, right? It’s so …
Beatrice Gutknecht 26:49
I was like, okay, kangaroo it is. Then they’re the bad ass as it is. You know, I found out after that they like, they drown their enemies
Speaker 1 27:04
Wow.
Beatrice Gutknecht 27:07
Only they destroy cars, but they’d rather enemies. Wow. I was like, Let’s lean into that. You know, the name is Badass. Let’s go into that exceptional. Let’s lean into like, the perception as well of the name on the both sides of it. Let’s go extra. No, not another kangaroo logo. Badassery. Okay. How can we level that up? Baseball bat. So Roo was born, and so, so happy for her. I just need to get, like, little fluffy toy made up with the the Facebook vibe.
Samantha Riley 27:52
Oh, totally, you totally need that. And it’s super memorable. Like, super memorable every time, you know, I was thinking about because we, I had, we had to cancel this interview. Every time I kept thinking about the interview, the first thing that comes to mind is that kangaroo, it’s because it’s is so memorable. So you talk about content and your brand also being strategically controversial. I know that the, you know, Roo is not controversial, but it’s kind of got that thing that makes people remember you. It stands out. How can you be strategically controversial without completely polarizing your market? Like, how can you lean into it to stand out?
Beatrice Gutknecht 28:44
So I’m gonna double down on my, even for my content, if you’re not following me, etc, you’ll find in the videos, I use that bat, I use the shade. So you’ll see the shades come out. You’ll see like the bat at the end of it, like hitting the camera. So it’s like further leaning into that. Now to answer your question in terms of strategically pushing back, I would recommend understanding your brand like not every brand needs to have a baseball bat, or you need to be bringing violence. Or, like …
Samantha Riley 29:24
I was going to say it wouldn’t work with my brand. I can tell you that right now. Like, if I thought of a brand having a baseball bat, it would be because I was at my five year old son’s baseball tournament. It wouldn’t be because we’re going to bash someone with that.
Beatrice Gutknecht 29:43
Exactly. So before choosing, you know what way that you’re going to kind of you’re going to push back on, do the positioning, understand how you’re going to be strategically different, how you’re going to. Be positioned and based on that and based on the like, the voice that you’ve really honed in on, that’s when you lean into that positioning, like, double down on it, take different directions. A great example was not manscaped one of the shaving companies that originally they got famous. I think it was Dollar Shave Club. Dollar Shave Club. So they got famous like, first by pushing back and bringing in that humor, and they recently kind of came back again, you know, they disappeared for a while, uh huh. They came back with a new campaign, which leaned into the idea of the club, but like, you know, the elegant gentleman’s club, but they did it with, like a tongue in cheek, sort of.
Samantha Riley 31:06
Yeah, so clever.
Beatrice Gutknecht 31:08
So good, so good. And this is what I mean. You don’t have to stick with exactly the same message, but that underlying what they stand for. You know, they they leaned into their name, the club element of their name. They lean into that tongue and cheat, which it’s consistent. You wouldn’t want that to change. Then they’re not going to be Dollar Shave Club anymore. It’s you. You’ve got that association, that perception the brand. Lean into that take different perspectives, different views on how that might be approached, while maintaining that voice, that tone, that positioning.
Samantha Riley 31:55
Love it. So messaging is a big part of our brand, with AI generated content, absolutely flooding social media, you know, marketing, ads, any kind of content, emails, websites, everything that we’re reading. How can we still lean into that but also keep our brand voice authentic and, like, absolutely unmistakably ours. Because when, you know, when I think of Dollar Shave Club, like, you know, I can picture the hipsters, and I can picture the tongue in cheek, you know, way that they made their jokes. It was so funny, you know. And then I think of, I can’t remember the name of the product, but it’s the same creators, and it was like the little stool for when you’re pooping. And there was like the little unicorns that did the rainbow colored poops. Can you remember that one? Like, we can’t create something that’s really creative when we’re fully leaning on AI. How do you integrate it, actually? How do you integrate it in your business? Let’s start there.
Beatrice Gutknecht 33:18
I use it for banter. So, like, I banned her ideas. And really kind of take that rabbit hole. How far down an idea and different versions of that idea can I take it from there, then it’s like, what does that sound like in my brand voice? And that’s what I recommend in terms of businesses. Use it as like a support. Use it as the tool to build the essence, but then make sure that it’s entirely like on your brand voice, and that’s why I strongly recommend have your team involved, be involved yourself, you know, so people are actually seeing you, rather than just a a piece of content or an ad. You know, have that connection to a human where people can be like, Yeah, this is what I can relate with, because moving forward, AI is not going anywhere, right?
Samantha Riley 34:31
It’s only going to be more prevalent. 100%. This is only the beginning.
Beatrice Gutknecht 34:36
Exactly. So the things that are going to stand out is having conversations like what we’re having now. You have a look. I don’t, and I’m not sure if you know, as you’re listening, how much you’re on LinkedIn, but I’ve noticed the drop in terms of people being active on there really. Rolling and engaging in content, and it’s, I can see it clearly, because there’s so much AI used in there that, you know, we’re just like, Okay, another one, which the essence is the same, but there’s no clear voice. You’re not really connecting with something. Yeah, yeah. So even if it’s even if you bugger up, it’s probably gonna, you’re probably gonna be more memorable. Yeah, people’s memories are not that great, so just put it out there.
Samantha Riley 35:35
I love it. I had something that I was gonna talk about. Oh, I remembered it. I have also noticed not just that the content on LinkedIn is starting to get pretty woeful, but that people are commenting using AI. It is actually starting to make me feel ill. And it’s just like, how do you even engage with that? Because we know that we need to engage with it. And I’m reading it going well, a robot just wrote that, am I meant to actually, like, write robot back to you. Like, this is just weird, man.
Beatrice Gutknecht 36:14
Like, I kind of lean into that in a minute again. It leaves it with, like, the brand and everything. It’s like, okay, I want to send like, or like, going really, really, or like, you know, kind of prodding back, but without, like, being exceptionally rude, yeah, yeah. It doesn’t, it doesn’t help. It doesn’t do justice for the people who are commenting, and it’s only going to damage their brands more, and I’m not sure why they’re still doing it.
Samantha Riley 36:50
But sadly, I think we’re going to see it more and more. To be honest, the people that don’t understand that, sorry. Oh, my goodness, the wind I’m just like this window is going to break any second. Alright, we’ll cut all of that out. Oh, where was I saying? I can’t even remember now.
Beatrice Gutknecht 37:14
It’s only going to get worse with the AI comments and completely agree. Yes, thank you.
Samantha Riley 37:21
So yeah, as it, I think as it gets worse, the people that are creating human connection are going to really stand out and are going to be able to grow so much faster, because I don’t know anyone that connects with AI, like it’s not a connection thing. It’s a task thing. And don’t get me wrong, I use it, I use AI, and we use that a lot in our business, but at the end of the day, we still have to connect as humans.
Beatrice Gutknecht 37:57
Exactly. And even if we’re talking specifically about comment game, you have a look at believe it was on Twitter X right, where brands they became well known for commenting very much on their brand, be it, you know, exceptionally snarky, sassy, or, you know, taking what said, but like making it on brand, and that is what’s going to become memorable. That’s what hits it. You don’t need to be a massive brand for that to happen. But if you do that consistently, people will recognize and you’ll start get getting known for that, whatever that quirk is during this copy somebody else, but pick a quirk, lean into that, make it like every comment, every post, etc, even when, say, for example, your customer service are talking on the phone. What’s what? Get them involved. Like, what are, what are perks that they can bring in? You know, don’t put them like, okay, you know, this is this an extra job? Ask them, you know. Hey, this is our positioning. This is our voice. What do you think, how do you think you could, like, bring that into the conversations? What are ways like, get their buy-in? In that way, get them involved.
Samantha Riley 39:34
Actually, I’ve got a really good example of a company I’ve seen on Tiktok just recently that have done this really well, and it’s a used car yard. I believe it’s used cars. I don’t think it’s new cars in New Zealand. And there’s three young guys like their brand is fun with a capital F, I kid you not, and they dance, and it is hilarious. Like the dancing that they do. It’s like that, like they’re really leaning into it. And what I’ve seen is a lot of other car yards trying to do it. They’re copying these three guys, but because they don’t have the same fun or the same like, it’s not their brand, they haven’t put their heads together and gone, let’s do this instead, they’ve gone, Hey guys, we’re going to copy this. It’s not working. It is absolutely not working. And it’s almost embarrassing for the other car yards that are doing it.
Beatrice Gutknecht 40:31
Exactly. And if that original company, they have already become known for that certain thing, they’re actually only helping that original car.
Samantha Riley 40:41
100%, they’ve got people from all over the world commenting, oh, I need to come to New Zealand just to buy a car. Like, it’s, there’s, they’re getting really well known.
Beatrice Gutknecht 40:51
This is the key pick. Something stick to it like, obviously, there will be pivots, obviously, any, any kind of business brand you’re going to want to pivot as the market changes. But what does that positioning look like? What does that voice look like? What do those values look like in that instance? And that’s, you know, why I have a whole issue about, like, jaguars, little rebrand thing, or where, like, you know, there’s, there’s ways that they could have made it relevant to Gen Z, to Gen alpha, etcetera. You didn’t need to go and, like, mess up the whole brand and just ruin it.
Samantha Riley 41:33
Totally because Jaguar is, is a, I guess he’s a car that was always known for sophistication for lots, let’s go with sophistication at the top. And what they’ve done, because that is the top right, they’ve just completely wiped that off and gone. Let’s do something completely different.
Beatrice Gutknecht 42:01
It’s insane. Like you, you have that very specific vibe that old school, like you imagine, almost like you’re having a cigar.
Samantha Riley 42:11
I was just about to say the same thing, like a smoking jacket and a cigar and a lovely glass of whiskey, right?
Beatrice Gutknecht 42:20
The fact that we can visualize that like that, that is the perfect example of a strong brand, and just to overnight, just cancel that, rather than looking okay, what do these values? What does that specific perception look like for Gen Z, what does that look like for Gen what is their version of that true to that specific feeling?
Samantha Riley 42:57
That image that’s been created over many, many, many years. Oh, my God. Actually, you know what I had to you’ve said that so eloquently, and I’d never really thought about it. How can we get the essence of our brand now, and how do other generations, or different people, what is their version of that? I’d never thought about that. That’s so cool.
Beatrice Gutknecht 43:25
Yeah, it’s something that you know, and even in your positioning, always think about like people, something that people will want, minus 100 years, plus 100 years, because you can take that in so many different ways. You know, it’s, it can’t just be, let’s reposition to something which is only relevant in this decade. Yeah, it doesn’t work only so much you can. Yes, nostalgia can be a part of it. And if you really just want to focus on nostalgia, there’s still one specific vibe.
Samantha Riley 44:04
So love it. I want to finish off with something that you’ve mentioned multiple times through this episode, but we haven’t really dived into it deeply. And that’s the internal branding, because this is something that gets overlooked. And to be honest, when you and I spoke the first time, this is something I asked you about a lot, because I was like, I’ve never really thought about this before. How much do you bring your team in to create this internal brand? What’s the process look like? Like, who comes up with this, this team’s values and the culture impact, or, like, how a culture is impacting a brand so that it’s being experienced externally, like, in the right way, what we’re talking about. Is that making sense?
Beatrice Gutknecht 45:01
Yeah, absolutely. If you have too many people involved in any kind of decision, you’re not going to come to a decision, right? So at the very core of it, it should be that founder, the co founder, the principal, etc, like the people who are deeply invested in the brand and the decision makers, you know, because at the end of the day, people work with the brand because they were looking up to a specific decision, specific vibe, right? But the point that the team comes involved is you’re, when you’re cross checking your pressure testing these ideas. So say, for example, you’re like, Okay, this is an idea of the values, or even beforehand, you know, do a part like a poll, anonymous poll with this team, and be like, Okay, what? What do you feel like the values are, try to get some buy in, some information before doing that. Or, you know, even with the positioning, instead of just deciding like, and then this is fixed, test it out with the team. That’s the important part there at that time, don’t, don’t finalize, confirm, make sure, okay, have discussions with the team being like, okay, what are your thoughts like, in terms of what this looks like in business, is this adding work? Because if it is adding work, it’s probably not the right kind of position. It’s probably not the right kind of values for you, like, if you know the values don’t even align with how they’re operating, or, like these, these kinds of things. So at that point you’re adapting. But that core decision, in the core, like thinking, going through it should be, you know, with that one or two people that started this whole thing, or are running this whole thing.
Samantha Riley 47:18
Love it. I am. I’m this, this internal branding has really been intriguing me lately. We were in, we were in a couple of car yards. Just recently, myself and my husband and we went to the very first car yard, and a car salesman came out and greeted us. He was extremely lovely. He connected straight away. I Within five, like, five seconds, I knew that he had a daughter that was the same height as me, and she just got married, and I’d already seen, you know, and this is the, this is the bridal party, and this is a six foot, you know, bridesmaid, maid of honor here. And, and then he asked about, you know, what car we drive now. And, oh, so I know that XYZ is really important to you. I’m like, Yes. And he really connected the car yard, I kid you not. Was so full. And he got called away and, and he’s, you know, he apologized and, and hand us to someone else. And the next salesman’s like, everyone loves this guy like he just does. So, you know, everyone wants to buy a car from him. Anyway, we went from there to the next car yard and there was no one in there at all, except two sales people. It was almost like they were playing rock scissors, you know, paper rock scissors to decide which one was actually going to come and speak to us, the one that did could not have been more bored. Like I just My husband says, Hey, Sam, do you want to get in the driver’s seat? And I just went, nope. And he went on straight away. He’s like, Oh, Sam doesn’t like the salesman here, because I really shut down. But it was the most obvious version of the internal branding not being right. And I wanted to mention this because internal branding can confuse people, especially if they’re thinking about branding being logos and colors. But it’s not. It’s about, How does everyone interact? You know? You know, are they really listening? What’s important to us? What? What is the story that we want to to be sharing with all of the people in our industry? And I think it’s really important to share those stories so that we can start to understand, oh, I don’t want to be that person. That’s the you know, I don’t want my customers or my clients to feel like that person in the second car. Yeah, what do we need to do with our internal brands so people don’t feel like that? So I just want to share that story to kind of bring that home.
Beatrice Gutknecht 49:53
Absolutely, and then, you know, same thing for me, and I’m sure many of the listeners, it’s as soon as you go in and you get that. Sort of vibe where, like, that’s service isn’t there, or like, you know, the attitude doesn’t fit with the brand, like it’s an immediate turn off, and having your team interconnected, where the communication’s there. So yeah, work on your brand, but at the same time, make sure you’re also working on your team, you know that this proper communication that people are bought in on the direction, that they actually understand the direction that you’re going in, and that’s why this should be that involvement in that internal brand, like not just the one person who’s that the the brand, brand expert? No, like your whole team should be looking at like, okay, no, what does that look like in my area? And it doesn’t matter what element of the business it is, it should be reflected.
Samantha Riley 50:58
Yeah, totally. Beatrice, this has been such an awesome conversation for people that are listening and want to follow you, connect with you. How do they do that?
Beatrice Gutknecht 51:11
So there’s three ways. One is on LinkedIn. Beatrice Gutknecht. And the second one is The Art of Positioning podcast, which season three has just started, yay. Is all about the implementation side. So exactly what we’re talking about here. Like, what does it look like in each part of the business, you know? Like, what does HR do? Like, say, for example, for franchises, what does that look like? Super excited, something different, nice. And the last place is on badassbyb.com. On there, you’ll find a brand health check where you can actually go through over five minutes and see where there’s performance gaps in your brand, as well as actually get 30, 60, 90 day actions based on that gap. And it’s free. Don’t, don’t ask me what, like my sanity about this. I don’t know why, but those are three areas you can definitely check out to get some traction, see where the gaps are on your own side.
Samantha Riley 52:30
Love it so much. Beatrice, thank you so much for coming on the show today. It’s been a great conversation.
Beatrice Gutknecht 52:38
Thanks so much for having me. This was so much fun
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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