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Money mindset isn’t just a “nice-to-have”, it’s the foundation of how you price, serve, and scale. You can have the perfect strategy, a brilliant offer, and a polished funnel, but if your money blocks are running the show, you’ll overdeliver, undercharge, and stall your growth.
In this episode, Samantha Riley sits down with money mentor and bestselling author Denise Duffield-Thomas to unpack the beliefs and habits that keep entrepreneurs stuck in economy-class businesses when they could be living a first-class life. From imposter syndrome to overdelivering, from boundaries to premium pricing, this conversation shines a light on the patterns quietly sabotaging your income and how to finally release them.
You’ll walk away with practical scripts, reframe shifts, and real-life stories that prove you can build wealth while still being authentic, imperfect, and joy-filled.
If you’ve been feeling resentful, stretched too thin, or second-guessing your prices, this episode is your permission slip to create a business that feels abundant, sustainable, and totally yours.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- Why imposter syndrome never goes away, and how to succeed anyway (04:15)
- The “first-class life” framework and how to upgrade without guilt (05:48)
- The surprising link between joy, creativity, and making money (11:39)
- The real reason overdelivering kills repeat clients (28:17)
- How boundaries in time, scope, and energy create safer client relationships (27:14)
- The Mickey Mouse lesson in business (33:30)
- The magic formula for premium pricing (39:07)
- How to detach from guilt and attract the right clients (42:58)
Want alignment as you scale? Let’s chat.
RESOURCES:
Get Rich, Lucky Bitch: Release Your Money Blocks and Live a First-Class Life
Table of Contents
Stop Overdelivering and Start Building Your First-Class Life
Why Money Mindset Matters More Than Strategy
The “First-Class Life” Framework
Premium Pricing Is Energetic, Not Mathematical
Building Wealth Without Burning Out
Stop Overdelivering and Start Building Your First-Class Life
You can have the perfect strategy, the best marketing funnel, and all the right systems, but if your money mindset isn’t in alignment, you’ll stay stuck.
So many entrepreneurs know this feeling. You’re working hard, giving everything to your clients, but still feeling resentful, underpaid, or stretched too thin. The truth is, it’s not about effort. It’s about the beliefs and boundaries that are quietly running the show behind the scenes.
That’s why I invited money mentor and bestselling author Denise Duffield-Thomas onto the podcast to talk about what really holds business owners back, and how you can finally create your version of a first-class life.
Why Money Mindset Matters More Than Strategy
Denise shared how she started noticing incredibly smart people who knew how to build a business but still couldn’t break through their income ceilings.
The missing piece was money mindset.
It’s not just about numbers. It’s the stories we carry that whisper things like:
- “I have to work harder to deserve more.”
- “I can’t charge premium prices because I’m not qualified enough.”
- “If I really care about my clients, I shouldn’t charge for it.”
These beliefs shape how you price, how you deliver, and even how much you allow yourself to receive.
The Trap of Overdelivering
If you’ve ever turned a one-hour coaching call into three, you’ll know this trap. It feels generous in the moment, but it doesn’t actually serve your clients or you.
When you overdeliver:
- Clients walk away overwhelmed and unable to take real action.
- You attract people who don’t respect your time or boundaries.
- You end up burnt out and resentful.
The truth is, boundaries aren’t harsh. They create clarity and safety for your clients, and they give you the space to show up consistently without draining yourself.
The “First-Class Life” Framework
One of my favourite pieces from this conversation was Denise’s idea of creating a “first-class life.”
This isn’t about flying in luxury cabins or collecting designer handbags. It’s about upgrading the areas of your life and business that make you feel supported, joyful, and expansive.
For one person, it might be replacing an old office chair that makes working uncomfortable. For another, it could be as simple as buying new underwear to replace the ones with holes. For Denise, it was about choosing comfort shoes over high heels.
A first-class life is about giving yourself permission to choose what feels good for you. When you do that, your business becomes a vehicle for joy and freedom, not just stress and hustle.
Premium Pricing Is Energetic, Not Mathematical
Here’s the truth. There is no such thing as a price that makes everyone happy.
You could charge a dollar and someone will say it’s too much. You could charge ten thousand and still have clients who value it.
Pricing isn’t about copying competitors or asking friends what they’d pay. It’s about what feels aligned to you.
When your pricing feels clean and confident, you attract clients who respect your work. When your pricing feels resentful or heavy, you’ll notice the imbalance show up in your client relationships.
Building Wealth Without Burning Out
Here’s the shift that changes everything. Your business doesn’t have to be your only source of joy.
When you separate your identity from your business, you stop relying on it to be your everything. That gives you space to find joy in other places, like hobbies, family, or creative outlets.
Your business can simply be the vehicle for impact and income. That detachment makes it easier to set boundaries, charge premium prices, and scale sustainably.
Final Thoughts
Money mindset isn’t something you tick off once. It’s an ongoing practice of noticing your beliefs, resetting your boundaries, and giving yourself permission to build life on your terms.
If you’ve been feeling stuck, underpaid, or stretched too thin, let this be your reminder.
You don’t need to work harder.
You don’t need to keep doing more.
You need to align your energy, set clear boundaries, and start creating your version of a first-class life.
Because wealth isn’t about perfection. It’s about choice.
ABOUT DENISE DUFFIELD-THOMAS
Denise Duffield-Thomas is the money mentor for the new wave of online entrepreneurs who want to make money and change the world.
She helps entrepreneurs like you charge premium prices, release the fear of money and create First Class lives.
Her books Lucky Bitch, Get Rich, Lucky Bitch, and her newest Chill and Prosper give a fresh and funny roadmap to living a life of abundance without burnout.
Her Money Bootcamp has helped over 10,000 students from all around the world.
She’s a lazy introvert, a Hay House author and an unbusy mother of 3. She lives on the East coast of sunny Australia with her family and two fur babies.
WHERE TO FIND DENISE DUFFIELD-THOMAS
- Website: www.denisedt.com
- Facebook: https://facebook.com/denisedt
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/denisedt/
CONNECT WITH SAMANTHA RILEY
TRANSCRIPTION
Samantha Riley 00:00
Welcome to today’s episode of Business Growth Lab. I’m your host, Samantha Riley, and so excited to be here with Denise Duffield Thomas. We’re going to be going down a rabbit hole around money mindset and who knows what else, because we’ve been talking a lot about dancing in the green room, so we never know what could come up in this episode. So Denise, welcome to the show. It’s so fabulous to have you Oh,
Denise Duffield-Thomas 00:20
My God, it’s so much fun. We’ve been literally chatting for 15 minutes before we hit record. And we’re like, let’s hit record, because this is too juicy.
Samantha Riley 00:27
I know, I know. We’ve been talking costumes and pointe shoes. And then I went, No, okay, let’s do this. Now. You’ve been in business since 2010 I believe.
Denise Duffield-Thomas 00:38
Well, depends on what you count as business, because I feel like a very entrepreneurial kid, and I love starting little businesses as a kid. So my first business when it was when I was nine, and I made fluorescent wetsuit banded bracelets to sell around the Del Mar state on the Central Coast. And I tried a lot of little things, I think, as teens, even in my 20s too. So my very first online product was an e book in 2003 I want to say 2000 2003 was very, very new, called Internet dating tips for men, for men, for men, because I was a young woman, young single girl living in London, and I went into internet dating, very much like a marketing funnel. You know, I sent out like, 100 messages. I like, copied and pasted stuff. I had batched up dates. So I had, like, 6pm and an 8pm date. Like, I really took it quite seriously, and I realized how bad men were dating. And I mean, I haven’t been on dating apps for a long time, but I heard it’s exactly the Samanthae. But back at that time, internet dating was kind of new, and so I feel like a lot of my early business ideas were very much like, Oh, I see this problem, or I see people that are doing this badly. How can I help you, and that’s just my personality. I was like that even in school, I’d watch Oprah after school, and then next day be like, Okay, here’s what I learned from Oprah yesterday. And so, yeah, that was kind of my first online product. I found out about the world of, like, online stuff and online courses. And my first ever course was in 2009 and I had one person on my course, which was society. And it was helping women lose weight for their wedding with raw food, which is what I was doing at the time, too. No qualifications in this, by the way, no nutrition qualifications. I feel like I was just like, I’ve just learned this thing. Let me help share it. Yeah, yeah, let me share it. And that’s but I would say it was probably not until my late 20s that I went, Okay, what can I do with this? I actually then qualified as a life coach, and very quickly realized I loved working more with business people. You know, I kind of had a little side business helping people find their soul mate for a while too. That was interesting. But then I was like, No, I really like talking about business. And then I realized, in business, yes, I love talking about marketing. I could talk about that all day long, but I really enjoyed talking to people about money, because I saw so many people who were just really blocked in very simple ways because of their money mindset. And they were smart people. They could figure out how to run a course, they could figure out a marketing funnel, but there was something holding them back. And so that’s when I decided to specialize in money mindset. And so that’s what I’ve been doing for the last what is time? I don’t know. I started that first course in 2012 and I still run that course today. So that’s my money boot camp.
Samantha Riley 03:43
I love it. A lot of the people that come on this show have got that Samanthae thread of I tried this and I tried this and I tried this, but it’s not about throwing out the baby with the bath water. It’s about taking all of these little bits that you’ve learned along the way and sort of packaging them all together and building something new. My question is, is going into that money mindset piece when that was still quite new to you? Did you have any imposter syndrome going into that field?
Denise Duffield-Thomas 04:15
Oh, absolutely. And I actually remember a feeling like it was a real calling like I I kept on thinking about it, and I kept on pushing it away. And the reason why I pushed it away is because I thought I’m not allowed to talk about money. I’m not a financial advisor, I’m not an accountant. And I thought for a moment, maybe I do need to go back to university and do an accounting degree, so I’m allowed to talk about money, even though I was not giving financial advice, I was literally talking about, you know, why are we scared about money? Why are you scared to set your prices? But I was still, I think, indoctrinated in that money is not something we’re allowed to talk about. Money is taboo. Money is something that you need to be qualified to talk about. Just mostly the problem, right? We Yeah, we think it’s not for us. So I remember kind of going, No, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then I I sort of went, Okay, I will, I will talk about this. But I was kind of like bargaining with the universe. I was like, universe, I will do this, but you have to make it really easy for me. Send me nice people who want to learn from me. I’m not going to put myself up as a guru. I’m a student of this, just like anyone else, and it has been, it’s funny thing. It has been easy.
Samantha Riley 05:33
That’s so cool. That’s so cool. Yeah, you talk about a first class life. Can you explain what you mean by that, and how you’ve seen that come through differently with different people?
Denise Duffield-Thomas 05:48
Oh, yes, it is so different. So everyone has to think about what their version of a first class life is, because I think we can see this very clearly, like if you’re on a plane, there’s very clear distinctions between the classes, right? So economy class, and then as I started making more money, I realized that some of those things are so arbitrary. So going to Premium Economy, you go, Oh, they’ve got slightly nicer toilet paper, like, you know, you get, like, an your seat reclines like, two inches more, right? But then you go into business class, and you go, Oh my God, you get proper
Samantha Riley 06:24
silverware, you get to lay flat.
Denise Duffield-Thomas 06:27
Yes, you get a little bit more. And then then first class, you know, is that next? And then now, of course, there’s sweets and all that kind of stuff. There’s like, Uh huh, beyond first class. And so I think what’s so hard for people sometimes get their head around is that we think, Oh, everything has to get better and better or fancier and fancier, and your version of a first class life could be completely different to someone else’s. So what I get people to do when they first join my money boot camp is to do a little bit of an assessment to rank things in their life according to those categories, Economy Class, Premium Economy, business class, first class. Now economy isn’t it’s different for everyone, because it’s what makes you feel or inconvenienced, annoyed, and so sometimes it’s really obvious where people go. You know what? I’ve got all these pairs of underwear with holes in them. So you go, Okay, you have to let go of those things, or you upgrade them to the next level. So for some people, it might be okay, I’m going to upgrade, you know, my office chair, because I have a chair that makes me feel poor and inconvenience. It stops me from, you know, doing my best work. And we start to look at everything in your life, because those things are symbolic to what we’re putting up with. Often, you know, if you’re putting up with literally, a lot of squeaky wheels, a lot of things that are making you feel poor, you start with the things that are going to be the most symbolic to upgrade. Sometimes that’s things that then will, like, uncover some money blocks around. Am I worthy of this? Or, you know, you get what you get, and don’t get upset. I don’t think it might remind you of things from your childhood, but you’ll get to a point with some things where you can’t upgrade them anymore, you know? So for me, my phone, I don’t know, it’s iPhone 14 or something, right? It’s definitely a couple of ones back, but I’m like, I don’t want to upgrade that anymore. I don’t even have to think about that anymore. But there’ll be other things in my life that you kind of go, Okay, what is that next? What is that next level for me? And when you start to realize that you are allowed to have what you want, you’re allowed to feel pleasure. You’re allowed to feel wealthy. It’s actually not so much about the money, it’s about the permission. Usually, yeah, you do
Samantha Riley 08:50
it totally. I love the way you talked about that, and I’m interested to know you just mentioned the phone, and it made me think about as females, we’re like, oh, we always want a designer handbag, right? Yeah. And I always had these dreams of having a designer handbag. And I remember the time that I walked into a shop and I could afford them, and I actually decided I didn’t want them anymore, yes. So for me, it was about having the choice, not about actually having the money. Have you noticed the Samanthae thing?
Denise Duffield-Thomas 09:21
That is exactly the lesson Samanthaantha it is choice, and that’s when you start to realize that richness isn’t always about stuff. And because I had this Samanthae experience when I started making money, but mine was about shoes. I was like, Oh, I guess I have to wear fancy shoes now, right? I was like, I have to wear high heels. And I remember just going, Oh, this is not my thing. And I love my sketches for me that that is first class for me, because it is about the choice. I think, though the lesson at the start, especially when someone’s new to money mindset, work. You. Realize that even if you do have the money, you still don’t feel like you have the choice, because you’re not allowed to choose. And the way you can practice this is really good, because the next time you go to a restaurant, I want you to sit before you open the menu and sit. What do I feel like? What do I actually want? Because many of us, myself included, when I started doing this, we don’t have the muscles around choosing and choice yet, because we always, we always default to what’s the cheapest, or what am I allowed to have, or what should I have, or what would someone else choose for me? And if you ask somebody to choose. It can be really, really difficult. And so similarly, you can go into a shop before you look at the price tag to see if you’re worthy of even trying it on, practice doing this and go, What would feel good to me? What is my favorite color? What would bring me joy? Try things on before you look at the price tag. Because I’m not saying, buy things blindly, but it’s like, take the price out of the equation. If you could choose, what would you choose? And that isn’t always the most expensive. It isn’t necessarily always the cheapest, but that’s okay, too. I still shop at Kmart. I shop at Target, but I think that’s the tricky thing. It’s not the money. It is. What am I? What am I allowed to have? What would do I really, really want, and that’s, I think, a very underused muscle for a lot of women.
Samantha Riley 11:30
Totally, yeah, you mentioned joy. Then how much is having joy linked to making money?
Denise Duffield-Thomas 11:39
Oh, that’s really fascinating, because I feel like I’ve done a bit. I’ve done a bit of a 180 on this myself, yeah, because I think in my early days of empire building, my joy was my business. And I think you do have to have that. You have to obviously like what you do. Because otherwise, especially entrepreneurs, if you get bored, you’re gonna, oh, let
Samantha Riley 12:02
it go. You burn things down as well. Like, you break things, right? So, like, being bored is the worst thing ever,
Denise Duffield-Thomas 12:07
exactly. However, I think I got to a point where I was like, Oh, my business doesn’t have to be my source of joy. My business can be my business, and I can get joy from other places too. So I know there’s been points where I’ve gone, Oh, I feel a bit bored with my business. I should do something else. And then I’ve just gone, break it tomorrow. Don’t break it today. Break it tomorrow. And then tomorrow I feel fine. Samanthae with so I batch my podcast interview, so I’m doing five today, and the day before I go, I’ve got nothing to say. I don’t want to do that. And then I go, my God, this is so much fun, right? And so for me, actually, separating joy from my business has been a very important step in the process, because I can be a bit more detached from my business, and I go, my business is a vehicle to help people and make money. It does not have to be the source of all of my joy, and I’ve, I’ve had to replace that, as we spoke before we hit record is I’ve bought a lot of that creativity into dance, which is what I love doing as a kid, and I love doing now, and that has helped me from breaking this very simple, lovely business vehicle that I have to help people and make
Samantha Riley 13:17
money. Yeah, I guess I asked it, because I think that, and you did mention at the beginning, our whole life is our business. You know when we’re in startup mode, but once you’re hitting your stride, you know you’re in your six figures, you might be going to seven figures. What I found personally is that the joy had to come from outside, because if I didn’t get the joy from outside the business I couldn’t do what I needed to do. So I think that creating a business where, for me, personally, where I had more time, actually worked better for me, because then I could fill my cup in my days off, doing whatever it is that I decided to do. And then when I was in my business, it was like, right? All systems go now, but we’re doing it in two days. We’re doing in three days this week. Yes, yep, you’re obviously in the multiple seven figures. How has that changed for you as you’ve gone through all of those different stages?
Denise Duffield-Thomas 14:16
Well, I think at the start, because I didn’t know that many entrepreneurs in real life, I had to fully immerse myself. So all my friends were entrepreneurs. All the conferences I was going to were entrepreneurial conferences. My whole life was that business, because I didn’t know anything. I was kind of like, well, that’s my old boring life, and this is my new exciting life, right? And also, I think there is, there’s just some reality. I think sometimes when you are in empire building mode, it will take up a lot more of your energy, like there’s no getting around that. And I think, though, that there’s a very good reason why, in like the Silicon Valley world, you. A founder often gets a business to a certain point, and then investors take over, right? Because some people are really good at startup phase, not so good at the systems phase, because they get bored. And I didn’t want to be that kind of person in my business, because I was like, I don’t want to sell my business. I don’t want to, like, get investors. And so I felt like I needed to reign in my squirrel brain a little bit, right? And to say, this is a perfectly good business vehicle. Don’t break it. Don’t break it. And so yes, I had to make sure I had hobbies outside of business and things like that. So then I’m not great at the systems part. Get other people to do that, be consistent in the systems that you create, but that doesn’t have to be then my life. So, yeah, yeah, but, but that being said, it’s okay. If you’re in the empire building phase, and that’s, that’s all, you’re just putting everything into that, that’s totally fine. I feel like, for me, it wasn’t, it wasn’t even a conscious decision, it wasn’t even a smart decision. It was forced upon me a little bit by undiagnosed ADHD and perimenopause colliding. And yeah, right. And I was like, Oh, I can’t do it like that anymore. Yeah. So then it’s Samanthae realization I had, I think when I had my first baby, I was like, oh, I need to outsource a little bit. I need to be like, systemized. I need, like, operating position. I need to batch things. And then you go, Oh, wow, that’s stuff that people have been telling me to do all along. I didn’t do it and then.
Samantha Riley 16:32
But I think it’s one thing for someone to say, and it’s a whole nother thing for you to actually do it and realize, oh, this is what they mean, or this is the outcome, because as a word, it doesn’t create that feeling or that understanding.
Denise Duffield-Thomas 16:46
It’s so true because I think too, you just think, Oh no, I can just do it all myself, or I can do whatever, and now realizing I don’t have to, and I can still serve people, I think I went through a bit of stage of guilt around that, a little bit too of thinking, wow, if I’m not 1,000% invested in my business at all times, then I don’t deserve to make money from it. Instead of going, Look, I’ve created this thing. It’s new to people for where it’s not about me. I don’t need to get all my excitement and joy out of this, because I’m not my customer. And when people join my program and they go, Wow, this is brand new information to me, this is so helpful. I’m like, It’s not about me. It’s not brand new information to me. Of course, not like, of course, you’re going to get bored of it sometimes, but that’s not the point. Get your excitement from somewhere else. And then, yes, when I have my boot camp calls and things like that, I go, Oh, wow, this is cool. I really enjoy this.
Samantha Riley 17:46
Yeah, money mindset isn’t like a you do it once you tick the box and you move on, right? It’s like this, oh, I wish, right, you are both, you know, it’s very cyclical. Is that the word, you know, we go round, it’s like we’ve reached next level. What is one money belief that still catches you out? And how do you overcome that?
Denise Duffield-Thomas 18:08
Oh yes. Well, I mean, I am very clear on this. Even though I teach this work, I am definitely a student of the work. And also, even though I teach the work, that doesn’t mean that teaching, it is me doing my own work, if that makes sense. Yeah. And I think any of us who are leaders, we have to be very clear that we also have to do our own work. Yes, I hire someone to help me with my money mindset too, because teaching, it’s not the Samanthae as doing it for myself. And so there’s a couple I think, that come up again and again for people. So one, I think, is this feeling of I have to work really hard to make money. And depending on what you heard growing up around that, I think that can add a lot of guilt for people. And so I’ve definitely gone through layers of that, of going, am I allowed to have business be easy? You know, should I be working more? I feel it on Sunday sometimes where I go, I should be doing something, and I go, No, no, you don’t. It’s okay. So that’s a big one. I think there’s another one that comes up for people where it’s like, I can help people or make money, but not both. And it’s like, if I care about my clients, then I shouldn’t charge for it. And this happens a lot in different industries too. You know, both of you and I come from a dance background, so it’s like, do it for the love of dance. Yeah? You shouldn’t make money out of it. Yeah. Samanthae in the health profession, people go, hope you’re in this for the right reasons. I really care about my clients. Money should be a thing. So it’s this binary thing, right? Of like, love or money, care or money. So that one comes up for me, it’s, I can’t be rich and like down to earth. And so every time I go to a new phase my business, I go, Oh, well, now I’m really now people are really not going to like me. We’re going to think I’m, you know, a snobby bitch kind of thing. And I think another one that comes up for people is this fear that, I call it, more money, more problems, and everyone’s got. Their own version of this. If I make more money, the consequence will be, I won’t be a good mom, I won’t be a good person, I won’t be ethical, I won’t be, you know, environmentally conscious. I won’t be a good friend, a good daughter, a good whatever, something bad will happen. And I think a lot of us live with that fear, that kind of little dread feeling of like, Oh, something bad is going to happen. And I think so much of that is just the fear of the unknown. If you’ve never seen anyone make money, especially a woman, then you, if you can only go by what you’ve seen in TV and movies, right where it’s like the rich bitch who loses everything. And so I think my job is really just to, just to talk about it normalize. It normalize also that just making money doesn’t mean you’ll be perfect, and you don’t have to be perfect to make money. So I talk a lot about my mistakes, and because I want to normalize, there’s no perfect version of you that’s going to be worthy of the money. You can literally be imperfect and earn money and you will still be imperfect. Yeah, there’s no end point of that. So, yeah, yeah. Comes up for me all the time. I find new things all the time about my money mindset.
Samantha Riley 21:14
I love that you said, normalize it like speaking it out. That’s what I love about you, that you do speak it out. It’s normal. Everyone goes through it because I think that there’s a lot of and I see it mostly in the coaching industry. I haven’t noticed it in other industries, and I’ve been in business over 30 years, and I’ve never noticed it before in other industries, but it’s like, I’m earning the seven figures, and this is the Holy Grail, and my whole life is perfect. And, you know, blah, blah, blah. But it’s not like that in reality. It’s there’s always things coming up, and I think that it’s really important that we do normalize it, because what we’re actually doing, if we’re glossing over things, is actually not doing what we want to do, which is helping people. We’re actually shaming people, where people think, what am I doing wrong? How come I can’t get this? And we all I talk about with my clients, like that. Things come up all the time, things break, things don’t go well. We all have moments where our mindset, no matter how hard we’re working on it, it takes a hit, whatever it is.
Denise Duffield-Thomas 22:19
Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? I think that imposter syndrome stuff, people are often waiting for it to go away, but it never goes away, no. And so you have to kind of accept that to go, oh, wow, I’m always going to feel some fear. I’m always going to feel a bit like an imposter. I’m not perfect, but why not me? And that’s it. When you start to realize that successful people are normal people, they’ve just sold more stuff, right? Done the thing like we live in a world at the moment, especially where there’s very little barrier to entry. You know, nobody can stop you from making a podcast. Nobody can stop you from having your own YouTube show. No one can stop you from doing any of that, but no one can force you either. And so you have to be in your own corner, and you have to almost be a little bit delusional and kind of just go, I’m just gonna Yes, I feel the fear Yes, I have feel like an imposter. I’m just gonna do it. And what is so fascinating when you do that is that people believe you Yeah, you know, like, I self published my first two books, and people just be like, Oh, you have a book. And I’d be like, kind I went into a bookstore the other day with a friend, and she goes, Oh, your books here, you should sign it. And I went, Yeah. And then I’m like, real author, like, I just kind of budged my way into it. And you’re all successful people feel like that, unless they’re like, delusional narcissists. They always think, yeah, I’m great. But most people have just gone. I just did a thing, and then I did it again, and then people believed me, so I kept on doing it, and that’s it. And if you’re just sitting at home going, geez, I wish the stars would align, and for someone to pluck me out and to go, you, I see your potential, it just that just doesn’t happen, right? And so just, just do the thing. The thing. No one cares
Samantha Riley 24:15
when things are messy like that. And you know, it’s one thing to say, just do the thing. What are the habits that can pull us back to that calm, focused action?
Denise Duffield-Thomas 24:28
Well, I think what happens when we go do the thing? One, we try and do everything ourselves. So I see a lot of people get stuck, like, for example, in the tech they go, Yes, I’m going to do the thing, but now I have to go back and learn how to do MIDI files or something, and you go, I can’t do it. And then you get paralyzed. Or I see people, they go, I’m going to write a whole book series. I’m going to do the thing. And they’re so overwhelmed. And it’s like, just write one chapter of your book. Or. Or they go, I’m going to do this program, and it’s going to be like, this whole big thing. It’s going to be amazing. It’s just like, okay, create an opt in, yeah. So that’s, that’s hard. I’ve done it myself because we want it to be perfect from the get go. We want it to be big. Also, what I think I did at the start is I tried to be everything to everyone. Mm, hmm. So my first website that I did myself. It had, I think it had, like eight tabs on it, at this at the front, and it was like health and wellness, finding a soul mate run a business, law of attraction, like literally all these things. And it was too much. I was spreading myself too thinly. And I see that a lot in people is that they want to be thorough. So they feel like I have to do everything, or if I’m creating a program, I have to answer every stage of this person’s life cycle. Instead of going I can teach you this one thing in this one program, and then my next program could teach you the next thing. And we feel like, if we don’t do that, then we’re, we’re worried that people are going to think we’re an imposter. Yeah, instead of being kind to our clients and going, No, I’m going to help you with this one thing. And sometimes the business only then becomes that one thing and, and that’s, I think, where I’ve fallen into. Some people sometimes will go, oh, what’s the next? Is there an advanced Money Boot Camp? Is there a mastermind? And I go, I don’t have the bandwidth for that, or that’s not my zone of genius to offer that. And so what I found is that a lot of my clients, because my program is pay once, stay forever, is they’ll come back to it because they they’re off looking for a silver bullet of going, what’s boot camp 2.0 and I go, No, babe, it’s the Samanthae thing. Just come back and do the basics again and again. And that’s been really great for me to realize again. Oh, I don’t have to be everything to everyone. This is what I can offer you and and that’s okay. So I think that stops people a lot.
Samantha Riley 26:57
Yeah, you were talking about boundaries just then, in a different way, like this is the boundary of what I do. I don’t go out of that. What are other boundary kind of gray areas that you see sabotaging people from really scaling up to the next level?
Denise Duffield-Thomas 27:14
Oh, yes, I mean, and I’ve done all of these myself too, right? So no shame.
Samantha Riley 27:19
That’d be right. We know that they work because we’ve done all the stuff that doesn’t work.
Denise Duffield-Thomas 27:22
Yes, over delivering is obviously one of the biggest things I see for women. So in particular, over delivering around time and scope, and this is such an easy fix. And I actually have a lot of scripts in my recent book, chill and prosper. I have some scripts in here, but I actually have a free ebook, if you’re okay, for me to plug. Oh, absolutely. So it’s called Awkward Money conversations made easy, and it’s at Denise dt.com/awkward it’s just a, not a fancy, little ebook, but it has some of these scenarios in there, because these are easy fixes on the outside, but actually uncover a lot of money blocks for us. So time. So if you sell a service where you spend time with people, so it could be coaching, consulting, whatever, what I find is that people try and give everything and solve every problem of people’s life. So my one hour coaching sessions were three hours.
Samantha Riley 28:17
Yeah, how did you even have the bandwidth for a three hour coaching session because
Denise Duffield-Thomas 28:21
I didn’t have that many clients, probably, so I didn’t realize that it’s that’s actually really unkind to do that, because people were really excited. Oh, tell me more. Oh, can you solve this problem? But actually what I was setting them up to fail because they were trying to do too much. They were unfocused. And also, I got very few repeat customers because they were like, I’m overwhelmed. I’m going to go do all the 100 things you told me first you’ve opened up all these tabs in my brain, and then I’m going to come back, which isn’t real change. Yeah, that isn’t real transformation in people. So there’s some really easy little things you can do to be the custodian of time for your clients, which actually makes you a better coach. It makes you a better service provider. And also, I know now if I’m on the other side of that as a client, if someone’s not keeping me on track, I feel very unsafe, because then I feel like, oh, I have to watch the clock because I don’t want to take up too much of their time. So it’s very kind to set boundaries around stuff like that, also around scope. So I have ADHD. I don’t often read my contracts, so I’ve unknowingly crossed boundaries with service providers. Because I I’m like, Oh yeah, let’s do this. Let’s do this. And it’s very easy to do that. I didn’t know they were seething behind the scenes, right? So again, around scope, if someone’s paid you to create a three page website, and they’re then suddenly you’re doing 20 pages. You know, that doesn’t serve anybody. So you can learn very simple boundaries, right? Oh, just to let you know, and this is what happened when people would say to me, I’ll just let you know that’s not in your contract this time we can pass. It for next time I’d go, Oh my God, of course. Sorry, I just got, I just got over enthusiastic, right? Yeah, yeah. So we think sometimes that when we set boundaries, people are going to think, Oh God, what a bitch, like they’re being so ungenerous. But actually, what it does is helps people to feel safe, that they know what the rules are. I felt mortified when I didn’t realize also overstepping boundaries, but also, there’s been times where I’ve sort of said to people, oh, so, you know, how much do I pay? When do I pay? And if they’re wishy washy around their money stuff, I just feel so unsafe in that situation. And I feel like, am I going to overstep the rules? Like, you know, am I going to offend someone, and I like it when someone is like, here’s the thing that’s a great idea. Let’s park that for the future, you know, or like, yes, that’s a great idea, but let’s talk about it next time, because I really want you to focus on what you you know, what we’re talking about. This time, I love it when someone does that to me, and when we do those things, first of all, you start to see your worth, and you go, Oh, wow, yeah, my time is valuable. And also it gives us bandwidth to create other things, maybe write that book, create a podcast. As you know, podcasts take a lot of time and energy a lot, and you can’t do that if you’re over delivering and under charging, yeah, with all of your clients, because you will have no bandwidth. And so when you do set boundaries like that, it does free you up a little to be able to give more, but in a way that doesn’t burn you out and get you resentful. So definitely, time is such a great one to start with. Scope is the next one, I think, to start with. But then going beyond that, the thing that I think was the biggest for me was I don’t have to be everything to everyone. And that’s when, if people would sort of come to me and go, Oh, what about this? I’d go, that’s actually not my area of expertise. That’s a boundary too, to say I don’t know, like or, you know, try this, another boundary I set in my group, which was a game changer for me, is that I had this, you know, Facebook group I still do for my money, boot camp clients open 24/7 I was the only person in there answering all questions day and night. Is that I started to say, what part of the course are you up to? Yeah, and it was game changer for me, because I was like, babe, I’ve created this program for you. I’ve created this container for you. The answers are there. I can’t do it for you, and you’re not paying me to do it for you, no? And it was just a really beautiful way to go. This is your responsibility. And once I started to do things like that, actually started attracting different clients. I attracted people who go, oh, Denise, I I read your book, and I’ve been doing the course, and I just did what you told me to do. And here are the results. I stopped attracting people who were expected me to do it for them, and then felt angry at me when I didn’t do it for them. Yes, and that’s such a subtle shift sometimes, right? It’s like you start to go, oh, wow, I’m worthy. And even then, when I hired a community manager to help me, that’s a really big boundary, I think for people too, is that I realized, oh, people in here, they’re treating me kind of like mom, like mom’s always going to be here. They tag me on Christmas Day, they tag me. You know, what do you think about this? And I went, Oh, and you’re going to love this analogy, because being a dancer as well, I realized I went to Disney on Ice, and I was like, Oh, my kids actually don’t know who Mickey Mouse is really, because I
Samantha Riley 33:30
don’t really, oh, my goodness, that makes sense. Yeah, they don’t grow up with
Denise Duffield-Thomas 33:34
- So they knew a lot of the Disney princesses. But they were kind of like, what’s the big deal about Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse. But whenever the way they edify and and just like, raise up Mickey Mouse in all of those shows, anytime he came out, there was a fanfare. The lights went up, but all the performers turned and looked at him. They were like, here’s Mickey Mouse. And so my kids are like, I guess he’s important, right? And so I realized that in my business that people were starting to treat me like this, the sweet the street sweeper, Disneyland, right? Not Mickey Mouse. And I was like, Oh, I can’t be both in my business. So allowing someone else to come in and help me in my business allowed me to be Mickey Mouse. And it was like, oh, it’s special to get an answer from Denise, not just like, because she’s there 24/7 and even when I hired a community manager, I very deliberately brought someone in who would be like, Oh, remember Denise says, or, Hey, if you go back to the material, she’s always going, Mickey Mouse. And yeah, for me, the ego of that is like, I am not Mickey Mouse. I’m a human being. But in my business, Denise dt is Mickey Mouse, and so I was able to kind of take that aside of going, Oh, it’s not about me. Oh, I don’t have to feel responsible all the time. But like, I also, like. It can be a bit special. So that was a really fascinating thing for me. And then, oh my god, we went to Disneyland two years ago. We went to Paris with with the kids. And again, I was just reminded of, like, oh yes, he starts and ends every parade. And you know, the Mickey is even though kids don’t really, I don’t think kids are like, in love with Mickey Mouse, but they see that it is just this important symbol for something. And the best bit was because we were there at winter every hour, on the hour, they had fake snow come out, and they played, let it snow. Yeah, amazing. And like, you know, you spend so much money there, right? It’s like $100 for some crack cocaine. Yes, whatever. But after all that, we’re leaving the park. Mickey and Minnie are like at the entrance, up the top, waving goodbye to people. And I was thinking, need to do that. This is so cool, and that’s the thing, when you have the bandwidth, because Mickey Mouse isn’t sweeping the streets at the Samanthae time, they have the bandwidth to create those surprise and delight elements, right? Because they’re like, they’ve got boundaries around stuff like that. Oh, my goodness. You know, they don’t have 50 Mickey Mouses in the park at the time. He’s only ever in the park one time,
Samantha Riley 36:14
unless you’re in the gift shop and there’s 1000 of them, and you have to stand there and go, which 1am I going to get? Yeah, I am a Disney fan.
Denise Duffield-Thomas 36:23
Actually, yes, it’s my, still my dream job. Oh, there you go.
Samantha Riley 36:28
Absolute, massive Disney fan.
Denise Duffield-Thomas 36:30
So I still have this dream I want to go work at Disney one day. I’m like, okay, so I can probably be like, Fairy Godmother at this stage, maybe like the evil queen or something. It’s still my dream job. So I, when I was growing up, I so obviously dancer like yourself, but I was a performer as well. So I was a suit character performer and and for me, I love then realizing, Oh, my business can be like that, yeah. And so even with my speaking gigs, I don’t feel very confident speaking. It’s not my favorite thing to do, so I I get hair and makeup, I have a stylist put together like an outfit for me, because then I’m like, Oh, this is a performance, yes, but that doesn’t mean that I have to live like that, 24/7, so I actually don’t do any speaking in my town that I live. Yeah. I don’t do any business. I don’t have any clients in my town, because I’m like, you always need a time where you can take off your mask and just be a normal person. Totally. I think that’s so true for your business too. Is like, maybe you’re spread too thin. Maybe you can batch your client facing days on one or two days instead of spreading it out. Maybe there’s parts of your business that no longer feel aligned to you and they don’t feel good. Maybe there’s a shift in who you want to see or how you want to see people, and how you want to deliver all of those things can be customized, but it’s part of that choice, right? What’s the first class version of your business for you? What would feel better? And I’ll hear people say, Oh, but I can’t do it like that. My clients won’t like it. And I mean, the pandemic actually helped a lot of businesses in that way, because I had people who said, No, all my clients, they they have to see me face to face, for kinesiology, for Tarot reading, for whatever they want, that personal touch. But it’s like, well, you can’t do it anymore. Yeah? Some people have never gone back to in person work. Yeah, some people have shifted the way they’ve done their stuff forever, but it is your choice.
Samantha Riley 38:27
Yes, your business, your rules. Oh, my goodness, my you’ve actually shifted my mind just by talking that through. That was, there’s some gold in there. I’ll be going back and listening again. I just want to finish off with one piece, because I think that to be able to create this first class life, there’s one thing that needs to happen, and then we need to bring in more money. Can you talk to us about setting pricing? Because this holds so many people back. Gosh, it’s, it’s held me back multiple times of who am I to charge that? What can you talk to to setting premium pricing?
Denise Duffield-Thomas 39:07
Yes, so there’s a couple of things that go into this before you even set the price. One is the realization that there is no such thing as a critic proof price, because that’s what we’re looking for, right? We want to find the sweet spot for everybody. We want to have a price where every single person we say it to says that’s reasonable, and this is never going to happen. You could charge $1 for something, and there’ll always be someone who says that’s too expensive, that should be free. Who do you think you are, and you can experiment with this, you know? And I remember, you know, that meme that goes around sometimes where you think a bottle of water is like 50 cents at the supermarket, you know, $5 at the petrol station, probably $20 at Disneyland, right? Yeah. And it is on. Often the Samanthae thing, and we can’t get our heads around this sometimes that, sometimes we’re selling the Samanthae thing, but it’s for a different target audience. And actually, pricing is different for your target audience. There are some people premium pricing is part of the like the sale. For them, if something’s too cheap, they’re suspicious. Sometimes we want to be a vibrational match, and this sounds so woo, woo. But pricing is energetic, and that’s the hardest thing, because what we try and do is we ask other people, we crowdsource our pricing. We say, what would you pay for this? And sometimes we’re asking people who are not our target audience, totally, who are not even in need of what we have to offer. Also, we try and average out our pricing. I did this. I don’t know if you did it as well. I went, what are all the other coaches charging? And then you kind of go, well, that person’s like, more experienced that or that person’s like, better looking than me, or that person like, you know, we do. We put all this stuff in our brain, and so then we kind of average out, I’d love to do this at a conference, because I think the visual be would be very useful. We all have our money blocks that we’ve got from our childhood, whatever, and we’re carrying them around in a little bag. And imagine, then, if I was at a conference, I’d love to do this and say, give me your handbag too. Give me your handbag too. And then I’ll go through the audience and collect everyone’s handbags and go, I’m going to carry all your money blocks as
Samantha Riley 41:27
well. You can’t do it, yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas 41:29
And so when we’re basing our pricing on someone else’s, we have no idea what their financial situation is, what their money blocks are, if they even need the money, what their boundaries are like with their clients, what their self esteem is. So, no, it’s so tricky, right? Because you can’t look at other people’s prices. Has to be an energetic match to you, and you have to live with it at the end of the day. And so it has to feel win, win. The problem is we, we have all our stuff around it, so we go, no, we’ll pay I’m too expensive. Who am I? Or we start to go, oh, but if I charge that, that’s more than a doctor earns, or that’s more than a lawyer, yeah, but it’s a different thing. Totally. It’s a different thing. And I always think there is a lid for every part. There is a customer for everything. And it’s not that you have to justify your prices, but you do have to be an energetic match to your price. And I’ve definitely experienced it where I didn’t charge enough for something, and I felt, I felt weird because it wasn’t, it wasn’t complete. Yep, it didn’t make sense. And so I felt the deficit in my body. That’s where it came from. That’s where the imbalance came from. I also think sometimes, when you’re under charging, we can be an energetic match to people who don’t see our worth, and so they’re never happy anyway. Totally. Isn’t that horrible? Because we think I’m giving so much and I’m under charging and you’re not even happy,
Samantha Riley 42:58
and then because, yeah, and then you start to feel resentful, right,
Denise Duffield-Thomas 43:01
right, exactly. And resentment is actually such a good sign that your pricing is wrong, you know, because you go, I can’t believe I’m tracking these people, you know, I’m unhappy. It’s like, yeah, because you have all this stuff around it, so you’re attracting those people, you know? And I’ve been in that phase two, where I’ve attracted, like bargain hunters or freebie hunters, and it’s it’s not even the price, it’s the energy around the price. Because I’ve had that. I’ve had good customers at every price point. I’ve had bad customers at every price point, and it’s usually when I’m not feeling good about it that that happens. And so I wish there was an answer where I could say to people, oh yes, here’s the formula. Yeah, if you get this formula right, you’ll never have a, you know, a no, ever, and everyone will be happy. It’s not the case. So that’s why you always have to do your own internal money mindset work, because then if someone says you’re too expensive, it’s not going to feel like a dagger in the heart. You just go, it is what it is, you know, and that’s okay. I also think to loop back to something I said a little while ago, is when you have bandwidth, you can create books, you can create opt ins, you can create podcasts. I if someone says to me, I can’t afford your money boot camp, I go, Hey, that’s no problem, babe, like you can go grab my book. There’s 1000s of resources. Why don’t you go and check those out, and that will help you, and then when you’re ready, you can come back. I’m not attached to it, because I know I serve I deserve, and I know I’ve got somewhere to send people. The problem is when you are feeling guilty and burdened, and you think, I am the only solution I can give them. Oh, my God, you feel so bad. And then you do take it personally. And then you think, oh, maybe my prices are too expensive. Maybe I’m a greedy bitch. Oh, okay. And then you take on too many people, or you over deliver you burn yourself out, and then you’re in this cycle where how many people can you really help from? That place you’re limited, and so then you can just become like, Oh, it is what it is. And there’s always more customers, or you’ll come back when you’re ready. It’s like, just so a detachment that actually, funnily enough, is very attractive to
Samantha Riley 45:16
people. Yeah, absolutely people buy confidence. It is attractive. I love that I this episode has been so good. You’ve just brought so much to the table that I’m going to go back and listen to it. I know that that any of our listeners will be doing that too. For people that have loved this as much as I have, where can they find out more about you and stay connected?
Denise Duffield-Thomas 45:41
Oh, well, I love connecting to new people. And I think I’m a collector of money stories too, right? So I love when people send me their their money blocks and stories, because I’m just like, Yes, this is what, this is the juice. So I’m at Denise DT on most social media platforms. So you can find me on Instagram, Denise dt, Facebook, Twitter, all the things. And my website is Denise dt.com as well. So it’s super easy to find, I would say, though, to start off, you know, if you’re interested in working through your money blocks, I’ve got a book which you can get from bookstores and Amazon called Get Rich, Lucky Bitch. Don’t be put off by the title. And that really goes through a lot of money blocks and chill and prosper, which is my latest book, is more about business and how those blocks come up in business. So my books are a really great place to start as well to like to start doing the work, you know, and to start uncovering stuff, because people will say to me, I didn’t think I had money blocks. And I go, Hey, babe, we all have them. There’s nothing wrong with that, but the more you can be aware of them. I used to say I can help people clear money blocks. Now I say I can just help you recognize and dance with them and have fun with them and make money even though you’ve got money blocks, because we all do and yeah, just start that journey and to realize why not you? You know you’ve got everything you need. You don’t have to fix anything, but being aware of this stuff will really help.
Samantha Riley 47:00
Love it. That’s just such a beautiful way to finish up. Thank you so much. Denise for joining us. It’s been such a pleasure.
Denise Duffield-Thomas 47:05
Oh, my pleasure too. Thank you. Bye.
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