672: How To Land Whale Clients with Alex Nghiem

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Most coaches are trying to “sell Ferraris to broke people” and then wonder why they have sales conversations that go nowhere.

In this episode, Samantha sits down with Alex Nghiem to unpack the “whale buyer” concept and why it can completely change how you sell, price, and grow. Not in a hypey way, but in a practical, sanity-saving way that makes your marketing feel lighter and your revenue feel more predictable.

You’ll learn what a whale buyer actually is, why they exist in every industry (yes even health, wellness, and relationships), and how the top end of your market quietly drives the majority of profit.

Alex breaks down the real reason pricing feels hard for so many coaches and consultants, and why “just raise your fees” is terrible advice if you’re still speaking to the wrong audience.

You’ll walk away knowing the green flags that signal someone can comfortably invest at the premium level, the red flag that usually creates messy client relationships, and a simple plan to spark premium conversations within the next seven days.

If you want fewer clients, cleaner delivery, and revenue that doesn’t rely on constant hustling, this conversation will help you stop guessing and start targeting the people who can actually say yes.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL DISCOVER:

01:18 – What is a whale buyer?
03:14 – Yes, whale buyers exist in every industry
05:22 – Proof that premium pricing works far beyond make-money niches
12:47 – Green flags that reveal premium buyers fast
21:47 – How to raise price without doing 10x the work
34:14 – The red flag that reveals premium clients you’ll soon regret
39:01 – What to do in the next 7 days to start your first premium conversations
44:48 – Strategic sponsorships that put you in front of premium buyers

Why Selling Feels Heavy (And It’s Not Your Offer)

The Truth About Where Profit Actually Comes From

Premium Buyers Exist In Every Industry

Why “Just Raise Your Prices” Is Terrible Advice

Why Premium Clients Are Often Easier To Work With

The Red Flag That Creates Messy Client Relationships

How To Start More Premium Conversations This Week

The Shift That Makes Sales Feel Lighter

Why Selling Feels Heavy (And It’s Not Your Offer)

If sales conversations keep feeling awkward, draining, or harder than they should, it’s tempting to assume something is wrong with your offer. Maybe you need better messaging or more proof. Maybe you need a different funnel.

But for most coaches and consultants, the real issue isn’t what they’re selling. It’s who they’re selling to.

When you’re consistently talking to people who can’t comfortably say yes, every conversation carries friction. You over-explain and justify the price. You feel the need to convince instead of guide. And even when someone buys, delivery often becomes heavier than it needs to be.

That’s not a sales problem. It’s a buyer problem.

The Truth About Where Profit Actually Comes From

In almost every business, profit doesn’t come evenly from the entire audience. A small percentage of buyers quietly drives the majority of revenue.

These buyers don’t need persuading and don’t need endless nurturing. They’re already investing at a higher level in their life or business. When they see a clear fit, they move.

The mistake many coaches make is building everything for the average buyer, then wondering why growth stalls. When you aim your messaging, pricing, and positioning at people who are stretching just to afford you, sales will always feel harder than they need to be.

Premium Buyers Exist In Every Industry

There’s a common myth that premium pricing only works if you’re teaching people how to make money. Not true.

Premium buyers exist in health, wellness, relationships, leadership, fitness, and personal development. The difference isn’t the topic. Again, it’s the buyer.

People with higher buying power don’t necessarily have different problems. What they have are different constraints – less time, higher standards, a stronger desire for clarity, efficiency, and outcomes.

When your offer speaks to those constraints, not just the surface problem, it lands very differently.

Why “Just Raise Your Prices” Is Terrible Advice

Raising your prices without changing who you’re speaking to is one of the fastest ways to stall your business.

If you’re still marketing to the same audience and simply adding a zero, you don’t suddenly attract better buyers – you just create more resistance.

Premium pricing works when it’s paired with:

Clear buyer qualification
Messaging that signals who the offer is for (and who it’s not)
Positioning that reflects confidence, not justification

The goal isn’t to charge more for the sake of it. The goal is to sell to people who already have the capacity to invest.

Why Premium Clients Are Often Easier To Work With

Here’s the part most people don’t expect. Clients who invest more are often:

More decisive
More realistic
More respectful of boundaries
More focused during delivery

They didn’t get where they are by outsourcing responsibility or expecting miracles. They understand effort, accountability, and long-term thinking.

Meanwhile, lower-level buyers often need more reassurance, more hand-holding, and more emotional labour – not because they’re difficult people, but because the investment itself feels heavier for them.

The Red Flag That Creates Messy Client Relationships

One of the clearest warning signs of a future problem client isn’t price sensitivity. It’s unrealistic guarantees.

When someone is focused on being “promised” a result, rather than partnering in a process, expectations tend to break down quickly.

Premium relationships work best when responsibility is shared and outcomes are approached with maturity. Clarity upfront saves months of stress later.

How To Start More Premium Conversations This Week

You don’t need a new funnel or a massive audience to begin shifting who you attract.

Start simple:

Be clearer about who your work is for
Be honest about the level of investment required
Position conversations around fit, not persuasion

Strategic visibility also matters. Being in rooms that already contain your ideal buyers – through partnerships, curated events, sponsorships, or trusted platforms – shortcuts months of chasing the wrong leads.

After all, the fastest growth often comes from better rooms, not louder marketing.

The Shift That Makes Sales Feel Lighter

When you stop trying to convince people to afford you and start speaking directly to people who already can, everything changes. Sales become cleaner, delivery becomes easier, and revenue becomes more predictable.

Remember, you don’t need more clients. You just need the right ones. And once that shift clicks, selling stops feeling like work and starts feeling like alignment.

WHERE TO FIND ALEX NGHIEM

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alex.nghiem.96/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexnghiem/

Download Alex Nghiem’s Checklist on Winning Whale Clients – Land Whale Clients

CONNECT WITH SAMANTHA RILEY

TRANSCRIPTION

Samantha Riley 0:03

Sam, welcome to today’s episode of business growth Lab. I’m your host, Samantha Riley, and today we’re going to talk about whale buyers. And as soon as this particular topic landed in front of me, I knew that I had to get Alex niam in to speak about this. I first met Alex back in 2018 at an event in San Diego. We hit it off straight away. I think we had lunch together every single day, just like talking, talking, talking. So I’m really excited. It’s taking me this long to get Alex on this show, so I’m super excited to discuss this topic. So Alex, welcome to the show. I’m so excited to have you here finally. Oh, I’m

Alex Nghiem 0:44

so, I’m so glad you know, I know, I know. Well, we’ve been trying to synchronize our calendar. So I’m really, I’m really glad we, we finally have a chance to kind of explore this topic. But, yeah, I was just reflecting when we met, it’s been seven years. Like, wow, how fast time has flown, right?

Samantha Riley 0:58

So, yeah, I know so fast. Like, it feels like yesterday and forever ago all at the same time, absolutely All right, so we’re talking about whale buyers. Let’s start off right at the beginning, because a whale buyer isn’t someone that goes and buys whales for some marine park. Can you explain exactly what a whale buyer is?

Alex Nghiem 1:18

Sure, and just to get out of the way, this is not a term that, you know, I know some folks you know, you know, because I’m on the other side of the world, right? There’s folks that’s, you know, for lack of better word, politically correct. It’s not a term I coin. Is a term that’s been around for decades. It came actually, from the casino industry. And, you know, it has multiple broad meanings. But you know, for the for the sake of this audience, it’s, it’s, you know, if you’re assuming that you’re basically doing mostly coaching and consulting, a well buyer is somebody that can afford a 10,000 to $100,000 offer. So, you know, so we can be more specific, statistically, it means that it’s like the 10% of the market that is basically willing to invest far more than the average buyer, right? Here’s a statistic that I actually learned from one of my mentors, Dan Kennedy, and it’s held true. You know, he’s, he goes back, probably, he’s been in industry for 40 plus years. It’s an, it’s a statistic. When I first heard it, I’m like, Nah, I can’t be right. But then I’ve, I’ve actually dug into it myself, and it’s, you know, it’s, I haven’t done a scientific study, but I’ve seen enough repeating pattern where it makes sense, your top 10 to 20% of your audience makes up 80 to 9% of your profit. It’s a very disproportionate curve, right? So this whole concept of working with whale buyers or whale clients, it’s really about going at a 10 to 20% that’s going to make up the bulk of your profit. So these, again, are the people that can spend 10,000 25,000 some cases, 100,000 1000, some case, 100,000 plus or more, you know, whereas your average buyer may only be, you know, buying maybe a $500 product, maybe $1,000 so these are folks that can outspend, you know, the rest of your, of your of your of your market. And there’s a very specific approach to how to, you know, approach and land these folks as clients.

Samantha Riley 3:00

So, yeah, we’re gonna definitely talk about that today. Are there whale buyers in every industry? Like because I think there’s probably already people sitting here listening to this thinking, Oh, well, that’s that doesn’t apply to me.

Alex Nghiem 3:14

Yes, well, I should say I’ve done work in probably about 20 to 25 industries. In the 2025, industries I’ve been in, and I’ve talked to people and probably, you know that, collectively, probably worked in 100 plus industries, at least all the ones I’ve sampled, that’s been the case. So let me give you a broad cross section, right? I’ve seen this in coaching consulting. I’ve seen this in financial services. I’ve seen this in real estate. I’ve seen this in corporate consulting, like B to B consulting, you know, like if you’re doing leadership training, sales training or whatnot. It’s true in basically, luxury items. It’s true in in, you know, in investments. So again, I can go on and on, but at least of the 2020, 25 industry I personally worked in, I’ve seen this phenomenon, and I’ve talked to enough people in industries I barely knew anything about, and asked them, does this, does this phenomena exist? In your case, it may not be, you know, the top 10% it makes up 90% but it’s always some disproportionate amount of you know of this. And in fact, you even see it in retail, you know. I mean, if you know to have to look for it, you know, if you go to like your you know, if you if you realize that even, like, you know, in like, even in even physical goods, this exists. So if you know, but if you’re definitely a coach, or if you’re a coach or consultant or something, you know, somebody that provides expertise some form of fashion, then the answer is definitely yes. And I could share a little bit, you know, when the time is right, or I could share with you, you know, different examples in this, different industries. The one thing I want to emphasize, want to emphasize is this is, this is true even in this is true even in industries, that it’s not business like most people think that, oh, well, that applies if you’re teaching people like, you know, you’re doing business coaching, or you’re showing people how to make money in, you know, real estate or investments or whatnot, that’s not that. Age, I have many clients that do stuff way outside, you know, for like, better work business or, you know, make money. And this phenomenon exists as well.

Samantha Riley 5:09

I because I think that probably those people that are maybe thinking that right now are like relationship coaches or some sort of health and wellness coach, but you’re still seeing it those industries, right?

Alex Nghiem 5:22

Yes. So I’ll use myself as an example, and I also use my clients. So I recently, you know, let’s just use, right? I belong to a gym. I think the monthly fee is like, you know, depending on when you sign up for whatnot, right? It’s like, you know, on the long end, like, you know, depending on how many services you want. I just want to debate the bare minimum, right? So I just go to the gym. I’m sorry, the weight room, right? Something’s like 47 or $67 a month. But yet, recently, I spent $6,000 on a 90 day detox slash wellness program. Well, let’s do the math, right? What’s like, let’s just use 50 bucks, right? 50 bucks in a year is what $600 right? 6000 is 10 times that you see. So what’s interesting is that it’s the same. I’m already a buyer in that industry, but a lot of time your client will only black butt or raise their hand when you know how to message it properly. So this wasn’t like how to go to the gym more, because I’m already going to the gym five times a week. So I’m gonna show you how to go to the gym 10 times a week. I’m like, then, but, but, you know, they again without getting all the nitty gritty details right? A lot of folks would find it, you know, would find it a little bit far fetched that somebody would spend $6,000 for a 90 day program in fitness or wellness, right? Well, I have another colleague. He only works with, you know, people that are already financially successful, and his program is around how to be the best shape when, when you’re 45 he charges, when I last checked, $18,000 a year. Wow, I can tell you that it was way beyond what a personal trainer does. Now, he does more than personal trainer. But when people first hear that like 18,000 My God, well, what do you think the guys are? What do you think the folks are charging, the actors are getting ready for, I’m a comic book nut, you know, the people getting ready for, like, a major role in a Marvel movie, I can assure you, they’re charging a lot more than

Samantha Riley 7:09

$200 Yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s not $50 a week, right?

Alex Nghiem 7:13

But are they actually 100 times better? No, right? And that’s one of the secrets, which I will get to a little bit later is like, what you charge, more often than not, is a reflection who you sell to. 90% of your pricing is going to come down who you sell to. You see, because we’ve been conditioned since you know, you know kids, right? It’s getting more certification, getting, yeah, of course you have to be, you know, a specialist and an expert in your field, but at some point it’s diminishing return. I started juggling one of my clients, right? They got three PhDs, and they say, Well, I want to raise my fees. I’m going to get a fourth PhD. I’m like, you know, there’s a, there’s, you know, I think, I think at some point there’s diminishing return on the PhDs you can get, you know, you don’t have one in fine. You want to do it. But, you know, a lot of folks are kind of like, you know, out and about and about and trying to get more, you know, certification. That does work, but that’s not what I’m talking about now. You since you brought a relationship, let me share with you again, I’ve been helping this one gentleman. So, you know, we want to use example as brought as many examples as possible. He’s been working. He’s got products, you know, as low as low as $47 it’s basically around relationship. And I just posed a question to him say, okay, you know, are you willing to be receptive the idea that there’s people willing to spend a lot more? I think, when he when, you know, even with my without working, you know, even on his own, he found he could charge up to $5,000 you know, for, like, a group program. And I said there’s a small segment of your market that I’m pretty confident they’ll pay you significantly higher than that. So I put him a challenge of saying, you know, think about putting in a 25 to $50,000 program. And of course, you can imagine, right? I mean, he just pushed him back. No way. I’m never charged, you know, I mean, like, even 10,000 was a stretch, right? Because his highest price program is $5,000 and so just fast forward it, you know, it took a while. You know, a lot of it was basically, you know, working through a lot of logistics or whatnot. I mean, you know, by that, I mean mindset. So now, since then, he’s got, I think maybe about, maybe 10 to 15 women paying him 50,000 to 100,000 Wow. You see, this is relationship, right? So most people say, well, there’s no way anybody pay that. Well, let me pose a question. You know, I just came back from the event. How much do you think a matchmaker charges the high end ones? They’re not, I can assure you they’re not charging 10 to $20,000 a year. In the States, there are matchmakers that advertise in every single glossy magazine. Now there’s a lot of people say your magazines are dead. I can assure you, those magazines in the airlines are still very much alive, and they’re very expensive advertising. I see matchmaking companies take multi page ads in those magazines, right? Multi page ads, not like, you know, like, not like a little classified, you know, whatever, right? These are, like, very expensive ads. So I told them to say, those are your buyers. I mean, yes, you can help anybody, of course, right? But the buyers that can pay the 25,000 50,000 100,000, they’re the same people that’s willing to spend a multiple of that with high end matchmakers. And so I said, Look, I’m not picking this up, right? Because he travels, you know, he flies, you know, I’m sure, like, like a lot of us do. I said, you probably seen these ads. I said, Yeah, how much do you think those companies are charging for that? Said, yeah, probably a lot more than $10,000 so that that caused him to kind of start thinking about, Oh, there are, there are, you know, he works predominant women. Women out there don’t want to spend that. So what’s that profile? So I help him shape that profile. And with a lot of reluctance, he he started, you know, going down that path. And now about, you know, nine months later, and again, it wasn’t because it took nine months to actually implement it. It took several

Samantha Riley 10:55

months of resistance, nine months of resistance.

Alex Nghiem 10:58

Well, once he overcame the, you know, the you know, the internal self talk, limiting belief. You know, he’s landed that. And you know, if we’ve learned a topic, I can help, you know, cover or, you know, later, if you like, what the profiles of these buyer looks like. Because a lot of folks think, well, these, these folks are like, are they like? Are they? Do they live in a different dimension, to live on a different planet? Say, No, they exist in your customer database right now, and they actually have four or five very key criteria which I can share, and it makes them a lot easier to identify. And at the risk of sounding very inappropriate, I always tell people that, you know, there are companies out there that track people with money. Yeah, like, like, people money show up on lists. Why? Because they’re worth marketing too. Now, again, this is gonna sound very inappropriate, but unless you’re in social services, nobody tracks people that are financial challenge, right? Like, you can’t go buy a list of people that don’t make money. I mean that that list doesn’t exist.

Samantha Riley 11:58

Unless, even if that list did, it’s no use to us.

Alex Nghiem 12:02

But that’s what I’m saying, right? Like, so, so the people have money, guess what? They are like, at least in the States, and, you know, I’m pretty sure you know, parts of the world too. They’re very they’re tracked very closely. Why? Because people want to market to them. So it’s not like these folks are invisible. In fact, anything, they’re easier to identify. You know, now, of course, you have to then kind of reverse engineer how to get in front of them. But my point is that these folks are not invisible. They have a very specific, you know, there’s like, four or five criterias that self identify them in every market possible. So if you like, I can kind of share that, or we can talk about later.

Samantha Riley 12:36

Yeah, no, let’s, let’s talk about that. Now, just in case I forget to go back to it. So what are some of those green flags?

Alex Nghiem 12:47

Sure. So you know, I can tell you, I can help, you know, skip the 10 or 15 years of dead ends. I ran into it, right? But nine out of 10 times they’re going to be either an executive or a business owner. Uh huh. Now, when I first realized, I was like, my god, that’s so blindly obvious. Well, yeah, when somebody tells you to, right? So I tell people this, let’s just use an example, right? Let’s use Federal Express, because it’s, you know, it’s a global brand, or even, you know, Apple, Amazon, whatever, right? You figure, if they are been in their position for at least five years in a senior position, I can guarantee you they’re making at least $150,000 why? Because if they didn’t, they would quit the job and go find somebody who will pay them, because in the US, that’s the market salary for a mid level manager at a at a large company, right? Again, unless you know you, you know you’re so people are just, you know, are completely complacent. If you’re working at Federal Express and you’re making 90,000 you guys take, you know, 10 years experience, and you go to like, you know, you go to the bar or basically a restaurant. You talk your buddies. Hey, you know, I, you know, you’re working Amazon, you know, I just got a raise for 3% you know, at some point your salary at least, man, you’re, you’re, you know how much you get paid is gonna come up and you find out your buddies making 150,000 at Amazon, and you’re making 90,000

Samantha Riley 14:08

FedEx, you’re gonna put staying

Alex Nghiem 14:11

there long. So, so, so by executive, I don’t mean like C level, when people think exactly, my god, am I? Am I trying to get to the CEO of Apple? No, I mean, like mid level management at big companies, those people have money to spend. Why? Because those are the same people to go buy franchises for 250,000 to a million dollars. Like franchises market, they don’t market to the C level executive. They actually market middle level managers. So people that are like middle management and above, they will have a larger, you know, a spending power than the average person, right? So let’s use my this gentleman. His name is Bob, that I was, you know, I that I help the clients that pay him between the 50,000 $100,000 you know, program. Times, they are basically in high paying professions, and they usually be in a position for at least five years. They’re either a mid level or higher ranking in a major corporation, or they’re in a position that just statistically pays more than the average profession. One of them, for example, is a doctor. Well, unless you just graduate from med school, if you’ve been a doctor, like, say, 10 plus like, say, 10 plus years in the US, at least, you’re pretty much guaranteed you’re making at least six figures. I mean, it just statistics again, otherwise you’re going to quit and probably go, you know, like, go to another hospital, right? So, so you know, job position, and also how long you’ve been in that position. So I just broadly call those people mid level managers slash executives, right? This is also a reason why, if you look at like coaching, executive coaching, tends to be a very high profession. Why? Because they’re working with executives, right? Versus, if you’re, if you’re a career coach, which, who would you write a coach? Like somebody just graduate from college, or someone’s trying to, like, basically, you see, so, so just, you know, age is one but more important, one age is one, but more importantly, it’s basically their job title, and they’re a big company. And again, there’s, like, 1000s of companies, right? Again, I just use the household name was right by globe, you know, Federal Express, you know, you know, Apple, right? Amazon. I mean, there’s just companies, right? Or basically by industry, even like tech jobs. Again, at least in the States, which I have more data on than than, pretty much, at least, because I reside there, entry level tech jobs right now are like 80 200,000 those are entry level tech jobs, right versus the inter level retail jobs that are, I don’t still buy a 40, 45,000 so again, if you’re basically a career coach, a relationship coach. In fact, I read an article like a back relationship. This one lady in Manhattan, right? She built a seven figure relationship business focusing on awkward. It’s almost redundant, right? Awkward tech people. Well, if you’re in tech, by definition, nine out of 10 times you’re awkward socially, because it just, you know, that’s the industry that you tend to work more with computers, right? Well, if they’re working a big company, Amazon, Amazon cannot get top talent by underpaying, right? So tech companies know it’s a talent war. Well, why is that important? That means that they have to pay top dollars. Yeah, right. So even the three a person’s got three years of experience in tech. Again, statistically, especially live in Manhattan, they’re probably making 150 175,000 they don’t need 10 years experience, three years and they’re already making so again, you know, certain industries are just higher paying than others, so why do we marry these ideas together? Right? If you’re a relationship coach, why not target women tech executives, right? Or women tech level management, or women in investment banking? Why? Because those jobs are so demanding they don’t have time to focus on the relationship. So if you know their investment banking, an inter level position in investment banking, 120 550,000 that’s kind of like bare bottom right? If you’re in the Midwest, probably maybe 100 but you’re not making 50,000 when you’re first coming out like investment banking, there’s, you’re never gonna, you can’t. There’s no way an investment banker, even a junior one’s gonna make 50,000 it’s just impossible, right? Just to that industry. So, by industries, you could also realize that so that’s one. The other category is basically business owner, and not just any business owner, but somebody that’s running a seven figure business. Okay, because people that are running seven figure, you see, because when I tell people that, you know, target people with money, they say, Okay, well, there’s no list that publishes people salary or the income, right? That’s true, but you can do some correlation. I learned this from a gentleman that does he’s a he teaches financial advisors, and he says that if you are, if you’re, if your net worth above a certain amount, you’re like, 95% likely to be a business owner. Yeah. So, right. So you know, again, in most parts of the world, entrepreneurship is the way to basically, you know, wealth and so you can work backwards. If I want to target people with money. One way to do is job title and the companies they work for. The other one is basically just target business owners that are doing at least a million dollars and above. And you’re going to, of course, then the question asks, like, how do you real? How do you, you know, correlate that? Because, again, nobody goes around like publishing their tax returns, right? Yeah. Most industries, if you have about 20 employees, you’re there’s a 90% chance the company’s doing at least a million dollars. Yeah, it’s a proxy, right? You have a certain amount of headcount, you’re most likely, you know, willing to do that. This is one of the reasons why. Again, people to do like, say, leadership, coaching, sales, coaching, they tend to target bigger companies because they know that they have deeper pockets. Yeah, but do they have to do anything more? Difficult, no, it’s just that company has more money to spend. That’s all there is, right? I always tell people, Look, you know, Ferrari doesn’t sell to broke people,

Samantha Riley 20:10

do you know? I remember you saying that to me all those years ago, and I still say that to my clients this day. Like that just cracked me up. I remember you saying, like, Ferrari, if you want to sell a Ferrari, you can’t sell it in a school yard. You just got to be in the right place, right, right? So I

Alex Nghiem 20:28

quit, you know, like, I mean, because you know, most of the folks that you and I interact with, you know, they spent years, right? They probably spent, you know, 10s of 1000s, some cases well over six figures, gaining expertise and or basically a significant portion their adult life. So to me, their offer is like a Ferrari, right? And so if you know so again, it’s not very politically correct, but I always tell people like, stop selling Ferraris to broke people. Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with your offer, and there’s nothing wrong with being broke. It’s just economic condition. But Ferrari doesn’t try to target people can’t afford it. It saves them so much headache, it saves them so much time, right? And so and so, this is, you know, just stuff that, you know, I picked up along the way, done a lot of consulting in this field over the years, and most of the industries I’ve been in, it’s, you know, some form of fashion. It’s been about targeting the top 10% of, you know, of the buyer. And it just over the years. It’s just, you know, it’s just, you know, it’s a term that just coin called, well, clients. So, yeah, but hopefully so you know, so,

Samantha Riley 21:26

sorry, yes, I was gonna ask, like, when you’re talking about those people that are, you have a more disposable income or are willing to pay more, do your offers need to change? Like, are you selling that $3,000 offer for $30,000 like, what needs right?

Alex Nghiem 21:47

So, yeah. So it’s, there’s no one. There’s no universal answer. So in some cases you do, in other cases you don’t. So let me give you both examples of cases where you do and then you don’t. So that way people can be more discerning. Because it’s there’s a lot of unfortunate thing, very simplified advice, oh, just raise your fees. I’m like, No, that’s a great way to go to bankruptcy, because you’re selling to people that can’t afford your current fees. And you raise your fees, suddenly they’re not the man. Oh, my God, your fees are higher. I’m just gonna magically think about it, right? Yeah, you go to the grocery store, right? If you went to the grocery store and you basically used to buying you, you know, your stuff, and then suddenly they tack a zero to like, I’m not like that. What is that like? I’m not gonna buy that. You know, there’s, there’s more price elasticity in what we do. But you know, it’s not like, just slap a zero, you know, double your prices. So, so there, it’s actually a multi step process, right? More often than not, if you have or if you already have, okay, so it depends if you’re starting out, or if you already have a client base, already, if you already have a client base, there’s probably a small percentage that, again, statistically, is usually 10% of the people that want to pay you more money. But because of the way you’re communicating it, they don’t. They realize that they sub constantly. Mistakenly think it’s not for me, right? So my client there, yes, he did. He’s offering more hand holding. But if you, if you look at the price, right, 5000 to say, 80,000 that’s 16 100% more. That’s 16x more. He is doing more, but he’s not doing 16 times more. Yeah, yeah, you see. So that’s the part I want people understand, it’s not always that you can do exact same thing and then charge, you know, like 510, times more. Most of my client on the low end, I said, you know, two to 3x on the high end, maybe 10x in some extreme case, I’ve seen it. I’ve helped client raise their fees as much as 20x again, they, in fact, add a little bit, you know, more stuff to it. But it’s, it’s never proportional to the race, because if you did, you just, or what’s the point, right? If I thought 10 times as much or 10 times amount of money, yes, right? It just keep the same, right? So in some cases, there is more, there is things you have to add, but it’s never the proportional amount. In this particular case, with the with this particular client is in relationship space. He is offering more access. But here’s what’s interesting, people that have that kind of money rarely waste time. So even though he’s making himself available unlimited amount, it’s not like they’re on the call like with him. You know, 24/7 because folks that at that level, they have a lot on their plate already.

Samantha Riley 24:23

So that’s I’ve actually found the opposite. The people that have more money, they are so they have, they have to look after their time so well, so efficient. They are so efficient. Where someone that pays less, it’s like, well, they’ve got all the time in the world, and they’re quite happy to have a chat forever, right?

Alex Nghiem 24:43

Or you end up being, you end up being a savior, right? Whereas people that, and this is, again, hopefully not going up too much tangent here, but also the people that pay more money, we’re not talking about, like, more like, you know, customer, client, expectation, yes, there’s always going to be exceptions to every. Everything that’s said, right? But, but generally speaking, unless you’re basically just providing concierge service, where you literally run their life, which that you know that’s a different world to itself. For the most part, if you’re offering like, you know, coaching, consulting, some form of fashion, more often than not, they actually have more pragmatic they actually have more realistic expectations. Yeah, because they didn’t get to where they were by being unrealistic. So you actually don’t have to make these same expectations, you know, you do, right? You know, like, you know, the women are paying like, you know, like, again, back to my relationship client. By the way, I’m actually intentionally staying away from make money, because that’s just so obvious, right? You know, we can certainly talk about the make money or the business niches here, in a second they he doesn’t guarantee that they’re gonna basically find, you know, their, you know, their, their their soulmate, but he’s saying, look, you’ve tried everything else, right? You tried to you tried the you know, the you tried to retreat, you tried online dating, you tried matchmaking, you tried everything else, right? So at this point, he’s not guaranteeing that, because a lot of people think, Oh, you charge a hat fee. You got to have some outrageous guarantee, right? The answer is, actually most of time it’s not because those folks did not get to where they are by being unrealistic. Yeah, interesting. So you actually right? So it’s actually kind of paradox. When you charge a lot of these fees, a lot of time, you actually can turn them off by guaranteeing it, because they realize that there’s no guarantee in life. Now, of course, you know, you have to basically balance that, you know. So, so that’s one. Now the other thing I also wanted, kind of, you know, to answer your question, right? So about whether you have to add it or not. It varies case by case. I’ve also seen cases, though many cases where you don’t have to, you don’t actually have to add a lot to the to the deliverable, right? Yep, because the out a lot of time, you can raise your fees by simply changing who you sell to and you can do the exact same amount of work, right? You see? So, like I said, this relationship coach, it’s not like women are affluent. It’s a term, you know, sometimes people use, you know, like they have higher, more disposed income. It’s not like they have special relationship needs that the average woman doesn’t have, yeah, it just they can spend more money. And they’re used to spending money because if you don’t charge accordingly, they’re gonna say, wait a minute, like, you can’t be that good. Yes. So to some degree, Afro and buyer are more discerning, so a lot of times they’ll use the price as a qualifier. I, you know, I used to sell the corporate I used to sell to in a previous life, I had a consulting business, right? And a lot of our clients were, you know, fortune 500 you know, global 2000 brands. And the joke I used to say was like, if your fee is less than what they spend on paper clips, they can’t, they won’t take you seriously, right? So we were selling against little companies, in some case, like 10 to 100 times our size, their fees are so much higher than ours, and yet, even though we could charge, you know, far less and be profitable, we simply couldn’t get any like, they couldn’t take us seriously unless we at least raise our fees. Because in certain audiences, there’s a certain expectation that, you know, that your fees have to be according, you know, accordingly. Otherwise they’re gonna wonder, like, what’s wrong with this? Like, you know, maybe this is a kind of like, a bare bones solution and not a complete solution. So a lot of time, right? A lot of times you could just change who you sell to, if you’re still planning on selling to the same audience. A lot of time you may have to add a little bit more, or you have to change your messaging. Here’s what I mean, hopefully not to get too technical, but I actually work with, I’ve actually, over the years, I’ve worked with a lot of SEO companies, as you know, as you know, consultant to them, helping grow their business. And here’s what you’re going to find interesting, Sam, I met a gentleman that does, of all things, reputation management for I mean, very wealthy people. I’m talking about people that are, like, worth nine figures and above individually, not not like their company’s worth that, like, individually, right? Here’s what he does. And again, this might get a little bit esoteric, but whereas everybody’s trying to get you know people highly ranked. He’s doing what’s called reputation management, like these people, unfortunately, may have had a little bit too much of the, you know, the old tipsy and so this is something embarrassing. And so now their their name is on, like, on highly ranked on Google that they don’t want, so they want to actually push that down. So he’s like, Oh, this is interesting. He’s actually doing the opposite of what most SEO company is doing, which is he’s actually trying to force them down, you know, be buried on page five. So in that case, he changed his audience, but yet. But his deliverable is the same, but he’s actually doing arguably easier than what most people have to do, which is trying to outsmart Google. He’s actually creating a bunch of content to bury the embarrassing PC. Yes, fantastic, right? And the amount of money he charges, oh, geez, it’s, it’s staggering. I mean, I’ve never seen, I mean, you know, I hear about people charging, you know, like, you know, 510, $1,000 a month. Seo, trust me, he’s charging a heck a lot more. Because these folks, it’s so embarrassing, and it’s so brand damaging to them.

Samantha Riley 30:18

Yes, there is worth so

Alex Nghiem 30:22

much, right? Yeah, but, like, you know, but on a delivery capability, he’s not doing much more than the average SEO in arguably, he’s actually doing it. What he’s doing is actually, you know, technically easier. Again, I’m not an SEO expert, but, you know, I’ve talked enough people say, Yeah, that’s actually easier to do than trying to get, you know, some you know, trying to get highly ranked on Google. So again, it depends on the situation. This is one of the things that we do, you know, when we work with our clients, like, do you have to change your deliverable? Or, you know, do you have to change, you know, who you sell to, in some case, a little bit of both, or, you know, tweaking. But the thing that I want people to take away from, because a lot of people think, Oh, my God, if I’m going to raise my price by five to 10x if I have to work five to 10 times as much, and the answer is, you may have to work more, but it’s never in proportion to amount that you’re going to charge. That’s the thing they didn’t want to take away from this is important, because if you have 210 $1,000 clients, just use this example, right? You’re probably netting, that’s the key, right? You’re not necessarily grossing more, but you’re probably netting more than 10 $2,000 clients because of the 10,000 client, you don’t have to spend five times as much effort as the $2,000 client you see. So again, I’m not suggesting people are banning who they’re selling to, but just to have a little bit more awareness of this, you know this what we call the whale buyer effect, right in their industry, so that they’re more intentional about going after that 10 20% Yeah.

Samantha Riley 31:45

The other thing that’s coming up for me, though, as you’re talking about this, is, if you really got clear on who those people are, you’re targeting. So say, for example, you were a fitness coach and you only were working with women CEOs, you could actually do so much more research on, like, what is their day like, what do they really need? Like, you would be able to create that offer. So it was perfect for that. And then that makes the messaging so much easier. It’s like, I know what you’re dealing with that no one else is dealing with exactly, and you’ll be able to change that. So you’ll, you’ll end up with so much better messaging, and you’ll also be able to, like, deliver to those clients a much, much better service, right?

Alex Nghiem 32:32

And I actually have a, I know, a gentleman, and he works, you know, predominantly with men, but you know, the same thing would apply, you know, to women he works, you know, he call, he actually works with, see, male CEOs running at least a 700 business who wants to be in the best shape of their life. So he’s targeting, is always about this, like you already in the top your gaming business, yeah. But look in the mirror, right? And then, of course, you know, they sacrifice a lot more often than not, their health, and lot of time their relationship, and actually have somebody else that, you know, I’m working with, somebody else who’s actually helping, you know, the same audience, you know, you know, get their family life back in order, right? So you’re right when you when you’re that well defined, your market is so crisp. And then people say, wow, like, you know, again, Dan Kennedy said it’s, there’s a concept called dog whistle, which is like they see, that’s a signal that they only they can hear right. Now, this is a little bit more advanced, but one of the advantages of working with people that are affluent is, again, not a judgment call, but more often than not, they tend to be successful in their feel. And so it elevates your game as well. Yes, you see, and so that that’s also something that you know you that you also take away, away from, you know, from it as well. So because you know, again, most folks don’t, you know, rarely get to a certain level of buying power, affluence, unless they’re relatively good at whatever you know, whatever field you’re in.

Samantha Riley 34:04

Yeah, yeah. What is one red flag that screams, this person is not a whale? A whale client?

Alex Nghiem 34:14

Great question. So it’s actually not, it’s actually not, it’s actually not what most people think, which is they ask the price of fraud. Price up front. Because one of the things I again, this is it’s contrarian, right? Some of the fields that I’m in that I actually asked that question within the first 32nd of meeting you. Because if it’s not a fit, I rather say we both know it, right? So it’s not that most people think, well, they’re asking the price. They’re probably not serious. No, in many industries, you expect to know the price before even have a conversation. It’s actually more about like I would say, it’s not that there’s necessarily a will, but they can be become a problem client, and it’s actually asking about guarantee, absolutely so. So you think of. About it, right? So if you do any transformational work or consulting work, a lot of time, the other side has to do their part too. Yes, you see, and so they’re asking for a guarantee. They’re not necessarily looking for a coach or a consultant or advisor. They may be looking more for like I would call like a savior, yes. And you definitely don’t want to be in, you know, in, again, this, this part is very subtle, right? You definitely don’t want to be positioned where, because there’s a small group of folks that they pay you a lot of money, and they feel, okay, well, I paid you a lot of money, and so therefore, now I can basically, you know, run your life, right? Yes. And you don’t want that, right? Because most people think, like, you know, people that pay high fees, you’re actually doing what’s called concierge service. You see, like, like, in the States, there’s a concept called concierge medicine, which means that, you know, people are available much more than say, you know, then probably, you know, the average hospital or whatnot. So it’s, it’s not that, okay. So we’re not talking about creating concierge service where you’re basically available. 24/7, so back to your question. It’s a, it’s less about like them not being a well client made them be more problematic client, which, again, goes back to like, you know, are, you know, are you guaranteeing your work? Now you can’t. There is a way to do a guarantee. So that way both sides are accountable. Is that meaning that they have to be responsible for their side and your response for your side. So, you know? But that’s clear, you know, roles and responsibility. But I’m talking more about, well, this doesn’t work out, you know, like, I’m spending this much money on you, you know, like, for example, I used to run a, you know, an agency, which is, you know, of course, done for you services, right? And people say, Well, I’m spending this much money. I want to guarantee at the end of this, I’m like, at the end of this I’m like, okay, and not to sound crass, but you know, you do know, when you go spend $3 million on a McDonald nowhere in their 100 page contract, did they say you’re gonna make money, and McDonald’s been around, right? And McDonald arguably, is the, you know, one of the most successful franchise, so, you know. So that’s the part that you know you probably want to I wouldn’t necessarily run away from, but at least have, like, a very candid conversation with them. So what they’re expecting for this high fee.

Samantha Riley 37:08

So yeah, and that can be quite nuanced, because I actually, as you were saying that I thought about a situation that we have been in with one of our companies, where I was having a conversation with a prospect, and we were talking about a piece of software that I said that we could set up for her on her behalf, and she said to me, well, actually, she said, I don’t really want you to do that, because in the last year I’ve been, you know, I’ve had someone, you know, lock me out of my SEO. Because, you know, lock me out of my SEO, lock me out of my ad account, lock me out of blah, blah. And, you know, straight away my gut went Aha, and I didn’t listen to my gut. And guess what happened? She didn’t pay like, the nuance is there, if it’s if it’s something that’s happened multiple times, there’s always a red flag

Alex Nghiem 38:01

there, yeah, yeah, you know, again, you know, there may be other reasons for, but statistically, yeah, that’s, that’s what I call, like the savior complex. And it tends to happen a little bit more as you charge more fee, as you start higher fees, right? And because you can, you can’t attract people, you know, because this, this relationship client, right? I mean, he’s had questions that, look, if I pay you this much more, am I gonna be guaranteed a soul mate? Because I try all his other stuff. I’m like, you know, he has a very candid conversation. Well, maybe there’s some internal work we need to work through first. You know, at the end of that, you know you’re more likely to attract, you know, a soul mate, or whatever term they use will be, but you know there’s no guarantee, and if they have issues with that, then you know you can still sign up that client. But know that, client, but know that, you know, there’s probably going to have to be some, you know, some client management, you know, down the road.

Samantha Riley 38:46

So totally. So someone’s been listening to this conversation, and they’re excited for the possibilities. What can they do in the next seven days to create their first premium conversation?

Alex Nghiem 39:01

Great, great question. So if you this, may change independent one when this gets published. But for now, Facebook is actually surprisingly responsive. If you’ve been very careful about cultivating now, you basically just accepted every random request that’s you know, gonna be different. But if you feel like your audience might be something, you may just want to make a post right, say, I’m looking for, you know, again, I won’t, you know, write a copy for word for word, but a Facebook post that say something like, you know, I’m looking for one or two clients that have these very, you know, these very specific needs, and just can’t upfront that, you know, this is a very, you know, it’s a sizable investment, and it’s got to be mutual fit. So that’s one. The other one I like to do is think about somebody that may already have influence, or, you know, already has your client. So one of the things we we spend a lot of time with our clients is who are a potential referral source or a strategic partner, right? You. Um, now, again, this is not universal, but here’s some, you know, here’s some names that I’m sorry, some roles that you may think about. A CPA is a good one, because CPAs tend to know, if you recall earlier we said, like, you know, CPAs, I’m sorry, like, you know that a very sizable market segment for this is basic business owners. A CPA knows how much their business owners make, right? They’re obviously not gonna divulge to you, but statistically, even though they they will know that. So CPA is good a business coach is also a good one. Because, again, who did a coach business owners, right? So you, if you’re doing you know now, a lot of people say, Well, I’m already teaching business why would a business coach, you know, potentially refer me to somebody? Well, if you’re doing just an example, sales coaching, right? You can position saying, Look, I do sales coaching. And the reason you may want to introduce me to your clients, because I can help their business grow, which means that they would have more money to invest with you, which makes them a better client. You say, now you’re doing the exact same thing that business coach is doing, and probably not, but you know, there’s always some angle there. So referrals is also another good one. This last one may not be seven days, but certainly you know 30 days or less is it’s very counterintuitive, but it’s actually just to host a podcast now, when people first hear this, I’m like, Well, how is that going to work? There’s a podcast can be used as a way to build your brand, but it can also be used as a way to initiate a relationship, because people love hearing, you know, so, so, as you said earlier, right? Since we have a relatively good idea of who our buyers are, you can invite people to a show. Now, some people can say, hey, you know, how establish your show? What not yours, of course, is very established so, you know? But a lot of folks saying, Well, I’m just starting out. Well, just be upfront about that. Just say you’re starting a series on this, right? I know a gentleman again. You know, there’s the whole story is little bit too long to kind of get into. But he had a podcast. He joked. He told me, Alex, I’d be shocked if the number of downloads I have a month is exceeds two hands, meaning that he he’d be shocked about 10 downloads a month, right? He didn’t spend very much time in growing the audience, just you know, like you are with this show. But in his case, he basically, you know, he reached out to somebody who’s a very high net worth. I mean, we’re talking like, you know, nine figures and above, and again, to make keep the story, you know, simple, or, you know, in interest of time, that allowed him to have the initial conversation and the initial relationship, and then several months later, by just staying in touch with that guest, that guest, over time, paid him well over six figures. Yeah, they started with basically invited to a podcast show. So there’s, you know, there’s a way to use a podcast. It’s a it’s a very different way than most people are doing. I know you, you have a podcast, we teach this,

Samantha Riley 42:56

yeah right. We actually teach this. Yeah

Alex Nghiem 42:59

right. So, you know, it’s a, it’s, yeah, so it’s a way to basically, get, you know, get a, get a, get a meeting, you know, with somebody that’s normally very, very hard to reach. So, so those, there’s more. I mean, I think, you know, I think over the years, I think I’ve got like, 20 different ways, but some of them are, you know, more expensive than others, but you know, the ones that are, you know, fairly organic. You could do or post on your Facebook wall or Facebook profile. The second one is, you know, see if you can start a relationship with a referral partner. The great thing about referral partners, they can refer more than one client to you. The third one’s do a podcast if you have some money, and I’m not gonna 10s of $1,000 maybe $500,000 there are folks out there that are willing to, you know, pay a sponsorship slot, right? Like, over the years, I’ve actually paid, you know, more than $1,000 but because my transaction size a lot larger, but there’s a lot of like, you know, online summits or similar like that. They’re receptive to, you know, a small investment, again, like 500 to $1,000 and you can get in front of, you know, of front of, you know, a very, very targeted audience, because they’ve, they’ve already taken the energy to curate that audience for you. I mean, over the years, we spent, you know, yeah, we spent a lot, you know, some cases, you know, 1000s of dollars, because the audience we service, you know, in one of my businesses, you know, they’re worth a lot, you know, a similar transaction. So we spend, you know, $2,500 you know, or so to get on, you know, 2030 minutes. 2030 minutes on stage, which is far better investment in running paid advertising. You know, in most cases, right. So that that’s right. So when people think about paid they immediately default to paid ads. That’s that’s only one of many ways of, you know, using paid marketing. You know, in this context, it means a paid appear, you know, paying to, like, you know, to make an appearance, either on a virtual event or physical room.

Samantha Riley 44:48

So, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love sponsorships and getting in front of the right room. If someone else has already built that audience, then it’s way better to go right where the. Already curated, than to try and spray it out everywhere. Big, I love sponsorships,

Alex Nghiem 45:06

yeah, because they, you know, as you said, right? They spent, you know, they spent a tremendous amount of time energy, but also a lot of relationship capital as well. Because if you’re speaking on that, even they don’t endorse you, the fact you’re on that stage is already a form of, like, you know, implied endorsement.

Samantha Riley 45:20

So totally, it’s a transference of trust from the person that’s curated that in the first place.

Alex Nghiem 45:25

Yeah, the variation of that, if we have, we have an extra 32nd a variation I’ve seen. I know a gentleman that built his business to eight figure. Now you know he had the facilitation skills. So you don’t have these skills, it may not apply. But the other thing you may want to consider doing is either volunteer or basically be help MC an event. Because a lot of events, you know, a lot of events, that’s one of the thing. Because if you emcee your own event, it certainly can be done, right? But it helps, you know, like, you know, like, entertainment figured this out a long time ago, right? There’s always an opening act, you see. And so I know at least two gentlemen, one built to the mid seven figure, the other one built to the eight figure. Now, again, it wasn’t from scratch. I’ve already, you know, up and running, but it goes to show you how powerful it is, you know, when you’re associated with somebody. So if you have an industry event, why not reach out to hosts? Say, Hey, I would love to help you. You know, MCD event. You know, would that be a value to you? Maybe during the breakup here, or whatnot? And you know, I’ve seen it cases where, by volunteering, dad, they say, Look, we, you know, we can’t pay you, but we can certainly give you, you know, 1520 minutes on the stage. Well, guess what? That’s worth a lot of money, especially in the right room.

Samantha Riley 46:31

Yeah, totally. Oh, this is such a cool topic, Alex, for people that have listened to this and they’re all excited, what is the next step? How can they? How can they, you know, find out more about what you’re doing.

Alex Nghiem 46:46

Yeah, so I built a site. It’s called whale clients, dot GIFT, and that’s spelled G, I, F, T, not, not GIF. Like the image. All the good domains are taken, so I have to kind of get creative, yeah. So go to whale clients with an S, dot GIFT, G, I F, T, and I have a, you know, I have a short PDF that I can share, and then I can also summarize some of the key points on this as well. And also mentioned, like, you know, a couple examples of how, you know, you can, you know, a couple of the things we covered here, just so it’s all captured in one place. Like, the idea of, like, the idea of, like, you want to raise your fees, you know, change who you sell to, and, you know, and the two perfect audiences, so, you know, for for these, you know, higher, higher price packages. But the thing I want people definitely take away from this is that it doesn’t, it’s not. The techniques are universal. They’ve been around for, I mean, I first heard about them about 30, you know, 30 plus years ago. And I found out it’s actually predates that eat for more and, like I said, it’s it. It’s not niche specific, right? It’s like, oh, it only works and make money, like, you know, or it only works in marketing or whatnot, relationship, you know, fitness, nutrition, you know. I mean, I can go on and on. But, you know, again, the obvious ones too, of course, finance, business, all that. It certainly works in those but even industries that’s not, you know, that’s not related to making money or business, it has. It works really, really well as well. It’s very applicable as well. So Well, clients dot g, if t, you know, well, clients

Samantha Riley 48:16

dot give Yeah, and wherever you’re listening, the link will be below. I’ve read it, highly recommend it, and it’s a nice, quick read. That’s what I love about the little books or the little documents that you put together, Alex, they’re just super straight, to the point they don’t take long you get it. You understand what people are like when they’re busy.

Alex Nghiem 48:35

Oh, yeah, yeah. I totally said I won my first book was 650, pages long. Those days are over. I’m not

Samantha Riley 48:46

Alex, thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s been an absolute pleasure having you

Alex Nghiem 48:51

likewise. Thanks a lot. Sam.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai