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Think you need more followers to grow your business? This conversation will show you the strategy that outperforms audience size every single time.
Samantha is joined by social media and marketing expert, Jenn Donovan, and together they unpack how community building, collaborations, and smart visibility strategies can help you stand out without shouting, hustling, or draining your energy.
If you’ve been relying on follower counts, fancy funnels, or constant posting to grow your business, this conversation will open up a completely different way to think about marketing – one built on trust, connection, and intentional visibility.
Jenn also breaks down the underrated platforms and missed opportunities that can instantly elevate your authority, including one that most business owners haven’t touched (but absolutely should).
You’ll walk away with practical, human-centered ideas you can use right now.
WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER IN THIS EPISODE:
- 00:42 – Why trust is the real currency in today’s market
- 01:40 – Community building as a high-impact marketing strategy
- 04:55 – What metrics actually indicate growth potential for coaches and consultants
- 07:03 – Essential elements that turn a simple group of people into a self-sustaining, trust-filled ecosystem
- 11:43 – How to create value while still honoring your time, boundaries, and ROI
- 13:57 – High-ROI, no-cost marketing strategies that dramatically expand your authority and reach
- 16:25 – How to collaborate with bigger brands (even if you’re small)
- 20:19 – Strategies that increase your chances of a “yes” for a collaboration
- 22:45 – How to pitch media and PR without sounding self-centered
- 29:35 – Modern visibility from the ground up
- 33:29 – How AI is changing search and audience behavior
- 35:02 – The truth about “free marketing” and the cost most people forget
CONNECT WITH SAMANTHA RILEY
ABOUT JENN DONOVAN
Jenn Donovan is a renowned keynote speaker, author, speaker and digital educator with a passion for making marketing simple and demystifying digital marketing. She’s the host of the Small Business Made Simple Podcast and author of the book Small Town Big Impact.
WHERE TO FIND JENN DONOVAN
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jenndonovan_/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jenndonovan.au
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/LikeMindedBusinessOwners
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenn-donovan/
TRANSCRIPTION
Samantha Riley 00:00
Welcome to today’s episode of the business growth Lab. I’m your host, Samantha Riley, and I’ve got Jen Donovan along to chat to us today. Jen is a specialist in social media and marketing, but we’ve just had a 10 minute conversation, and I think we’ve touched on just about every topic that’s being had in Australia right now we could go down any rabbit hole. So, Chen, welcome to the show. I’m really excited to have you here.
Jenn Donovan 00:27
Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, your audience, you know they might need to strap in for this conversation. Goodness knows where it might land, but promise it will be really worth listening to. But yeah, it’s an honor to be here and to chat to yourself and to your listener as well.
Samantha Riley 00:42
Let’s start off with community building, because I think this is something that you and I vibed on like quite a lot in our little conversation in the green room. Because I think that right now online, there’s a massive trust deficit you know, people. They’ve heard all the all the marketing they’ve heard, all the you know, the slick oil salesman that you know have have been around. And I think everyone’s BS radars are so finely tuned now, and there needs to and the you know, we need so much longer to build trust. And I you mentioned community building. And I think community is really where it’s at. It’s like in this AI driven world, in a world that moves so fast it’s it’s this community that is going to make us stand out. So when, from a marketing perspective, how would you describe community building?
Jenn Donovan 01:40
Yeah, I suppose community building is when I, you know, I do a lot of speaking as a keynote speaker, and when I’m on stage, I’m talking at people like people are there to hear me speak. But in a community, you’re there leading the community, yes, but they’re all talking to each other, and they’re all vibing with each other and sharing details with each other and but you know, you’re still the person who is actually leading that. Because, you know, someone needs to lead a community, for sure, but it’s, it’s talk, it’s being with people rather than talking at people. And I find that so much marketing these days is talking at someone rather than trying to include them in the conversation or to hear what they’re saying. Or, you know, you know John, meet Sam, and you know, meet Paula, and you know you would make a really good team together. Or, you know, you’re talking about the same sort of thing and, and I think, you know, it’s more or less like putting, putting a bit of a picket fence, a virtual picket offense, around your people, and having them think of you as the person who is the expert of what they want, but also understanding that, you know, they’ve got all these other people in your community that they can be friends with, and they have or nearly automatic trust with people because they’re in your community. And so they’re like, well, this person must be a good person, because, you know, they’re in your community. It’s a little bit like, I don’t know about you, Sam, but I’ve had probably seven years of podcasting, and I think I’ve had two people I’ve interviewed, and I’ve never put them live, because for me, it’s like I’m saying to my community, my podcast community, I trust this person, these would be a good person to work with. And after interviewing them, you know, one in particular sticks in my mind was I actually think you know what you’re talking about. I don’t actually think that you are the business you might be the business owner, but I don’t think you’re the person who does what you say you’re doing. And therefore, I didn’t feel that I could put that out into the world and have people think that I trusted that person, or that I was recommending that person. So community is kind of, yeah, it’s a really quick way of building trust, you know, and it’s also a really good way of leading people, rather than just talking at people,
Samantha Riley 03:48
yeah, and you were talking about that trust there. It’s a transference of trust. It’s like, oh, well, I know Jen, really, really well. So you know, if I, you know, if you introduce me to someone else, I would automatically trust him, like it transfers very, very quickly. I think I had a coach once say it’s like kings, hang with kings. Nice. I like that, yeah. And it’s just that idea of, you know, we, we tend to hang out with people that are like us, that have the same, not exactly the same values, but our values all sort of, you know, they resonate in the same way. We’re not going to hang out with someone where the values are completely different. And yes, I’ve got a little folder like you where some podcast episodes end up for that exact reason because, and every single one of them was actually a values misalignment, and not necessarily even an information misalignment, because, you know, and that’s what you’re talking about, there is yes, yes. Values are so important.
Jenn Donovan 04:55
And I just feel like we are still, I’m still hearing from Sam. Business owners that I do a lot of, you know, coaching and mentoring with that they’re still like, I’ve only got 600 followers on Instagram, or I’m, you know, I’m struggling to get, you know, people to follow me on Tiktok or connections on LinkedIn. It’s like, but it’s not actually what it’s about. It’s about, you know, who’s in your community, and who do you want in your community, and going out and maybe seeking them, or going into other people’s communities and building that trust there. What that looks like. You know, I think we are quite some distance away from worrying about how many followers we have on Instagram, because, you know, reels have and video has kind of ruined everything. Now we just kind of scroll past we barely leave a comment or a like these days. Never learn to follow. So it’s, you know, it’s about that community. It’s about bringing people in to have those conversations, about building that trust with them. So whether that is through an email list and you end emails with hit reply and let me know how you’re feeling about this, and you build community that way, or whether it’s a Facebook group or whether it’s a live event that you attend or a zoom networking event that you put on, or whatever that looks like. But community is the way to go in, you know, an AI fast paced, oh my goodness. What could possibly come next way? You know, we can, we can trust our communities for sure, and we can trust the expertise in the community.
Samantha Riley 06:27
Yeah, I was about to ask you, you know, what sort of communities are there? And you did just rattle off a few things there, because there’s going to be people listening. And I’m thinking, hundreds of people that are listening, going, oh, you know, that’s me. I’ve only got 200 600 800 followers on Instagram, or I, you know, only use Facebook for my family and, you know, not building relationships. Like, can you sort of speak to some of the amazing communities that you’ve seen built, or not specific communities, but ways that you’ve seen build people, build community.
Jenn Donovan 07:03
Yeah, I guess you know if I selfishly talk a little bit about a community that I built, so if we head back to 2019 I come from a farm. I live on the border of New South and Victoria, and we were in absolutely horrific drought at that particular time, being a speaker. I was traveling around Northern, no Southern, New South Wales at the time, and it was October, so it was coming up for Christmas. No one was excited about Christmas, because when you live in a regional area, if farmers don’t have money, towns don’t have money. So if there’s no crops, there’s no money, the town tends to suffer. And at that particular time, buy from the Bush was a trend, trending hashtag, but no one really knew how to use Instagram and how to get involved with that. And on the way home from a week away, if anyone knows where hay is in New South Wales,
Samantha Riley 07:57
the hay planes where you can drive down the gurus bouncing with you and looking in the window.
Jenn Donovan 08:03
That’s exactly where I was. Nothing else to do but sort of think up a bit of a solution. So I got home, and I opened a Facebook group, because I’m like, everyone knows how to post on Facebook. And I invited my clients, and I invited my friends, and I invited them to invite their friends and their clients, I think within six weeks, that group grew to about 100,000 people, and it grew to about 400,000 people. So but that was community supporting community. I only invited probably 200 people to start with, but then other people saw that that could actually really make a difference. You know, Amy, who had the alpaca farm, was making alpaca flowers, and, you know, sold more on that platform that week than what their sheep made at market. Because they’re selling sheep because they’re in drought. And all of a sudden she’s got a platform where she can make money, rather than trying to get people to her website herself and the community supporting her. So then she invites her friends, and they invite their friends, and all of a sudden you have this really big community that you know, to date, has put about $10 million back into the regional economy of Australia. But I only started it. I was the person who set the rules and set the boundaries and threw people out for being rude and mean, but everyone just got in there and supported everybody. And little did I know that the bush fires were coming, and then we had all the horrific floods, and then, of course, we had covid and things just kept spiraling. But that’s what the community did. The Community save lives, saved businesses, saved towns, just by joining this particular Facebook group and supporting whether they spent their own money or just shared a post to their friends or to their family or invited them into the group. So it that’s the power of a community, if you’ve got that. I guess the goal, what is the goal of the community? But having. Everybody with a similar value system we want to support the people who were struggling was the value system, no matter where you came from, and the community just out, well, out grew myself, but you know, was a sustainable community that helped other people. Like that’s a big scale community, I get that. But then, you know, there was people breaking off in pockets and having lunches in their town. You know, through, you know, I’m throwing this luncheon in, you know, in orange, anyone around would like to come. And so all of a sudden it started to be taken offline, like it’s just such a beautiful thing if you can get the right community together and, you know, let it blossom, but still with someone, someone still needs to be at the, you know, at the start of that, and someone still needs to control to a certain degree, because no one wants to be in the bad community
Samantha Riley 10:51
totally. I want to play devil’s advocate here. Everyone that’s listening either has a business or wants to have a business, and in their mind, they’re probably thinking, what sort of communities can I start so that I can get x, y, z, get clients, get opportunities, get whatever it is. What can you speak to there? Because obviously we are in business, and we’re in the business to make money, and we have goals. But obviously the example that you just used then was a very different goal. It wasn’t for what you could get. How do you balance? I’m doing this, and I need a return on my time with, you know.
Jenn Donovan 11:43
Yeah, yeah. 100% see where you’re coming from, absolutely. So I suppose you know the small example that I used earlier with email marketing. Do you send emails, or do you invite people to respond to those emails so that then you can start a conversation with that person? You know, they might reply. You reply back, all of a sudden, you’re sort of having a conversation. They might be like, oh, you know, you made such a great point. You might like to meet Tom. I’ll introduce you to Tom. Like, there can be little, tiny things that you can do to sort of create the community. Doesn’t have to have a central point, necessarily, but you are the central point. But it doesn’t need to be a collective central point where they can see each other’s faces like you can do a Facebook group, absolutely. But those things are a beast. If anyone is listening and they’re, you know, they’re like, I’d like to start a Facebook group. I’m like, have a really good strategy, because those things are a beast. And, you know, unless you have that good strategy to get a return on the investment. It can become a bit of a time suck, trying to create a community like that. But it’s, you know, you are the connector as well, you know. So you might be talking to this person, you’re like, Oh, you need to meet that person. You know, today, I’ve had two phone calls of people recycling, you know, fabrics and things like that, and one’s doing something in the AI space, and one’s doing something of actually collecting them. I’m like, You two need to speak to each other, so they’re both part of my community. I’ll connect them, and then they’ll go off and have their little conversations and hopefully do amazing things together.
Samantha Riley 13:18
I love that. Let’s talk about free marketing strategies, because this is definitely your wheelhouse. You’ve been doing this for like 20 years. I think you said,
13:29
Yeah, kinda, kinda here and there,
Samantha Riley 13:37
I mean, but community building is, I think, an awesome free marketing strategy. What? What can you, what sort of ideas have you got outside of building communities to be able to essentially get your message out there more, I guess?
Jenn Donovan 13:57
Great question, and it really thought provoking question as well. But I think one of the ones that comes to mind quite quickly is collaborations and partnerships. You know, potentially finding like, who has your audience but isn’t your competition like that is one of the fastest way to grow your business is to find someone who talks to the same audience as you do, but they’re not actually your competition. And think about how you could create a collaboration with them, whether that’s a collaboration like Nike and Tiffany, who create a shoe, or whether that’s a collaboration of let’s go live on Instagram together, you know, twice this month, once on my platform, and then once on yours, so that we get in front of each other’s audiences. It could be something as simple as that. I think that is a really good way of doing it. And again, you know, I had a client just this week who was like, but I’ve only got like 500 followers on Instagram if I want to talk to the person who’s got 11,000 like, how do I What have I got for. Them. I’m just new. I’m starting out. They’ve got all these years of experience and have built this audience. And so, you know, I said, well, well, okay, what did you do before this? You’re a startup, so what did you do? And she’s, oh, I have a full time job of blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, so okay, what are the transferable skills there that that business might need? And we kind of discussed it, and then she goes, actually, my husband’s a photographer and a videographer. I’m like, there you go. You could offer them something, you know, some free photography, or some editing of their videos, or something like that. Like it is sort of thinking about those skills that just aren’t what you’re doing now in that business that you want promotion to. But we all have, you know, we’ve all had a really big journey to get to where we are, and probably have other skills as such that we could use. So I think, you know, go and find someone, but don’t just think about the skills you’ve got to offer in the business you’re doing right now. What else have you got to offer? Because it does have to be a 5050, thing. There has to be something in it for them and something in it for you. So I think that’s a really good one
Samantha Riley 16:05
there, because I want to dive into collaborations more before and I heard what the next one is, and I definitely want to go there too. But collaborations, I think, are my favorite, most favorite way to grow a business. I’ve grown every single business that I’ve had through collaborations, because they don’t cost anything.
16:25
No, they can’t, they can, or they
Samantha Riley 16:29
can, but generally, and the and what, what’s beautiful about this is it’s coming off the back of that, you know, building community that you were talking about. It’s like always thinking, you know, who can I introduce someone to? And you never know what’s going to happen, like a reciprocal invitation as well. And, ah, I was going to say something about about it, and it’s completely gone. It might come back. It might not. But, yeah, I really, really love collaborations. You were talking about the Instagram collaboration, and this doesn’t relate directly to that particular clients. I have no idea who they are, but I know a lot of people say to me, Oh, well, you know, how do I, you know, get on that big platform, whether it’s podcasting, whether it’s Instagram, whether it’s whatever it is. And yes, you might be able to do it. But also think long term with collaboration. Maybe that’s not the right person to collaborate with. Now, maybe there’s another few collaborations that you need to do with people that are more at your level that will get you to that collaboration. So I think that you with collaborations, you do really need to think long term.
Jenn Donovan 17:39
And I think you have to really understand the goal, like, again, with this client, you know, and she was talking about someone who, you know, had phenomenal business, phenomenal growth, and we, you know, realistically, I’m okay. So you go live on their platform, you get 1000 inquiries, what do you do? And she’s like, Oh, I couldn’t handle that many. I’m like, absolutely you couldn’t handle that many. So you might sort of look at someone a bit smaller that might bring in 10 leads to your business that you can handle, because you are a startup. So it’s kind of looking at the goal and not over stretching yourself as well, because the last thing you want is to over promise and under deliver. You would much rather have the leads come in slower at the start, or, you know, at a speed that you can handle. Like I often giggle it. You know, the messages you get on LinkedIn and Instagram, you know, would you like 500 leads a week? I would be in the corner rocking if you gave me 500 leads in a week? Like, I couldn’t even handle that. Like, know, your target audience mate, come to me and say, would you like 10? And we’ll have a discussion.
Samantha Riley 18:43
Yeah, totally. And, yeah, I love, I really, really like the way that you mentioned that too. Really understand what your goal is. It’s so important, and you don’t want to the way that I the wording that I use is you don’t want to burn an opportunity, because you might think this is such an amazing opportunity now, but you might not be able to deal with it properly. But once you’ve got some some systems in place, or some funnels in place, or you’ve got a bigger list or more followers, or whatever it is, then you’ll be able to take a much you’ll get a much better return, and it’ll be a much better collaboration down the track, so you don’t have to take every opportunity right now. Yes,
Jenn Donovan 19:28
absolutely, absolutely. That is just so such a good thing to sort of hone in on when we’re talking about this. But yes, I do love a collaboration. I think they just can grow your business. And like you said, you know you’ve done it over and over again successfully. So I’m sure you were a much bigger expert to talk about that subject than
Samantha Riley 19:50
me, as we were, as we were talking about before I hit record. And I’ll just say it, I’m always building the plane on the way down. I’m just making I’m making shit up every single day. Yeah. Okay, what are some of the ways that you’ve reached out to collaborate with people or or some of the ways that you’ve seen clients reach out to do collaborations with people? Because one of the things that a lot of people say to me is like, I don’t, I don’t even know where to start. Don’t even know how to reach out, or what to do.
Jenn Donovan 20:19
Yeah, I suppose you can take it all the way back to the beginning and say, you know, if there is a brand that you’re looking at that you would like to collaborate with, I would highly recommend that you follow them on socials, that you start being social. On social, you know, give them some thumbs up, some love hearts, some comments, share their content. You know, I call it my Hansel and Gretel strategy, just sprinkle those bread crumbs so that when they get that email or that DM that lands in their inbox, they’re already got the head nod, they’re all like, I’ve seen this brand around, yeah, okay, let me read more. Rather than you are just someone brand new that they’ve never heard of. I think, you know, if you can warm them up a little bit, you know, give them a bit of social love, because who doesn’t want that at the end of the day? I think that’s a really good way to start. But depending on the size of the collaboration, it could be just a DM it could be a voice message or a video message through Instagram, DMS or LinkedIn. Little bit harder to do through messenger and WhatsApp, of course, but the other two platforms does do sort of lend themselves to doing something a little bit more personal. It could be an email, could be a phone call, it could be an in person visit. Depends on who the thing, who the person is that you’re trying to do. But I think the main thing to go in with is this isn’t just about you. Like, you know, I’m sure Samantha, you probably like my inbox, and you get a lot of people asking to come on your podcast, and they start off with, guess how good I am. I’ve done this for so many years, and I’ve won all these awards, and I’ve done and I’m like, I’m sorry, I couldn’t give two hoots. What are you going to do for my audience? What are you going to do for my community? Because I’ve spent a lot of time building my community or getting my audience. So start off there. What’s in it for them? Like, it’s the age old marketing question, what’s in it for me? And then we can have a bit of a chat if I think that I want that thing, so even though it is about you, it can’t be about you. It needs to be about them, or the outcome for their clients, yes, or their customers, totally.
Samantha Riley 22:32
And I think that segues beautifully into where you were going to go before, which is PR and which has a very similar sort of in but, but talk to us about PR.
Jenn Donovan 22:45
PR and free marketing. So getting into media is a really good again, I would say it’s a bit longer burn time depending on what your product or your service is. Sometimes you know, if your products are candle, and you’re marketing your candle and 300 people want a candle, it could work quite quickly, but sometimes it can be a bit of a slower burn. For me, it definitely sits more in the brand awareness strategy. Just, you know, again, it’s a bit bread crummy, putting it out there, getting people to know like and trust you sort of recognize your face, your brand, whatever that looks like. But, you know, I often say to people, you know, have you ever sat at your desk to do a social media post and you’re like, I don’t know what to post? Well, imagine having a online blog or an online newspaper or something that is produced daily, like a morning show, or, you know, a TV show and you have to fill content every single day. That is what those people are up against. They need content. They need people that have great stories, great products, a little bit innovative, you know, or just someone who has a really good story to fill that spot for them. So I think flicking that switch to, I need them to. They need you because they’ve got to fill the spots. Is a really good way of thinking about PR. And I think it also makes you a little bit more comfortable to reach out thinking, well, actually, I’ve got a good story, and they probably need me to fill a spot somewhere in the next week, or whatever that looks like.
Samantha Riley 24:19
Totally now, this is something that I’ve had three conversations with people over the last 24 hours, so I really want to touch on this, because it is about reaching out to those people. But like bringing in everything you’ve already mentioned about it’s not about you. It’s really important with PR, and I’d love you to speak into this way more. It’s still about them. Even though they need you, they don’t want you to be pitching. Hey, you need me, because I’ve got a really good book that you need to talk about. Can you talk a little bit about the the pitching process? I mean, not how to do it, but how to how to get a really.
Jenn Donovan 25:00
Pitch? Yeah, I think, you know, it’s about story selling, storytelling, story selling. You know, it’s the story they’re interested in. Yes, you know, at the end, I guess if it’s TV, it’s a little bit different, because you’ve got that facial recognition to the brand and things like that. But you know, if it’s the written word, it’s really at the end, you get to put, like, maybe two lines, if you’re lucky, you know, to contact you and your website address or something like that. So it is about the story you have to tell. And I suppose one of the things I, you know, talk to my clients about, is, if they wanted to sort of investigate this path, a little bit, is to go to Google, type in the keywords you know about your business or about the story you would like to tell, click the News tab and see what journalists are actually writing about something that’s similar. Read a few things and start to get a bit of a feel of what sort of angles have been done, what sort of angles are interestingly enough to get printed or to get online and sort of just start doing a little bit of research there, because, again, it’s not about you. Yes, it is about you and your story, but it’s not about you selling, but that, and that’s why I say it’s a bit more around the brand awareness and, you know, a longer lead time, but still, you know, those backlinks on your website look really good as featured in gives you a lot of content to repurpose over and over again that you were featured. You know, it really, it’s a longer strategy, but it also has those other things that can really help you from an SEO point of view. You know, people Google you. There’s more than your website and your socials coming up. There’s these other things that you’ve been featured in.
Samantha Riley 26:48
I think going back to something else you said as well in it’s always think about what it is that they want. Because I do know of someone that was on a morning show sometime in the last couple of months with a brand new app that had not even been launched, and she wound the story so well around who it was that in the day that they were on the morning show, they had a new lead every four minutes for the entire Day. Whoa, that is amazing. So good, huh? Like, I was just like, Yeah, I did what you did. I was like, Whoa. That is so cool. But the story was so cleverly put together with, you know, how is this important to the other person? It blew me away. When, when I, when I heard that, I was like, That is so good. But that wasn’t just a flippant like, there was a lot of thought behind that, and it was very done, but Yeah,
Jenn Donovan 27:50
and like, possible, yes, it is possible. And, you know, I don’t want to over complicate it either. Like, you know, they’re the experts. They will help you, you know, do this. They want, if they’re going to put you on their platform. They also want a good result for their reader or their watcher. So, you know, they will help you as well if they choose you. But I had the complete opposite. Just a couple of days ago. There was someone on there talking about rare minerals, you know, and deals that were being done. And, then, you know, I quite like to have a little bit of a flutter on the stock exchange. And I was quite interested in his company. I don’t know what that company was. They didn’t. They mentioned it once. It didn’t come back up on the screen. I’ve been and had a look on their website, and I can’t quite seem to catch who that was. And, you know, so now it’s kind of like that was a bit of a missed opportunity. It was a, you know, it was an opportunity to talk about, yes, what is actually happening in, you know, governments and, you know, some deals are being done on the table. But I was like, oh, and I guess from a marketing point of view, that’s how I look at things. I’m like, Oh, you missed the mark on that one. Like, you know, yeah, it was kind of like, that was a good story for them, but I don’t know if it had the outcome for the person who fronted up on morning television. Ouch.
Samantha Riley 29:15
So I’d love to talk about one more free marketing strategy collaborations. Love, PR, love, what’s something else that people can really tap into? You know, not just to get leads, but really what, I think what we’re talking about is actually building authority and trust.
Jenn Donovan 29:35
Yeah, I think that we have to probably have a discussion about Google and having that authority and that trust on Google so that when I put in my question or my keywords, you are up there with the answer, whether that’s in AI overview these days, or whether that is your website coming up, whether that is your Google business profile that is up to. Date that is helping you, because most of your SEO needs to be local, because you tend to serve as more locals. You’re not really an international business, or whatever that looks like for you, and I suppose, in the last couple of days. And I am no SEO expert, but I love, I think Google gets ignored too much. Whereas, you know, Google’s kind of like a warm lead. They’re they’re looking for your business to solve their problem, as opposed to social conversation. But in the last couple of days, we’ve heard a lot more about being and being places. And, you know, people making sure they’ve got Bing Places set up, because we’ve learned that a lot of AI programs are finding it cheaper to make deals with being to bring data through, than to make deals with Google to pull data through so that, yeah, so if you haven’t got your Bing Places set up and you can actually connect the two. So if you make a change on one, it will come through to Bing. But yes, it’s like, oh my goodness, you know, and meta, if you scroll down the very bottom of a meta search, Bing is the label that the icon that you see, so they’re bringing data through Bing. And it’s not a big thing, because we put things on the internet. We don’t put things on Google as such. But Google, my business, is Google’s platform, and Bing Places is Bing’s platform. So, you know, again, it’s a little bit interesting to sort of, if you want to come up in searches. And AI searches are becoming, you know, we want to now show up in chat, GPT, maybe we need to look at, you know, making sure we have our Bing profile out there as well.
Samantha Riley 31:43
Wow, there you go. I’ve learnt something new today. I had not even I’d forgotten being even existed.
Jenn Donovan 31:52
Well, I kind of had a bit of a heart palpitation. It was probably a good 12 months ago now, when I saw that meta and Bing were potentially hopping in bed together. And I was like, That is huge, if they’re pulling data through Bing rather than Google, which totally makes sense. Like, metal wants to compete with Google. It doesn’t want to give Google traffic. Yeah. So that’s where I thought, oh, Bing is going to be a bit of a play. I don’t think it’ll ever out run Google. I think AI is Google’s, oh, sorry, chat GPT is Google’s biggest threat at the moment, I would say so it’ll probably change next week. I’ll be wrong by the time this goes live, probably
Samantha Riley 32:32
in like 30 minutes, with the speed that everything’s going right now. But yeah, it’s amazing how many people are using chat GPT over Google. I’m certainly not googling as much as I used to. Sometimes I still do, but definitely not as much,
Jenn Donovan 32:48
yeah, yeah. So where are you going for your searches? Are you going to like the chat, or are you going to social or Google? Yeah, yeah.
Samantha Riley 33:00
Interesting. And again, it changes because it’s because I might see something on Tiktok and just go, Oh, that’s right, I was searching for that before. And I’ll actually just stay within that platform, if that’s top of mind. So I don’t think that I’m the kind of person that does the same thing all the time. I for me, it’s just wherever I am that’s generally kind of where I am for that second. I think squirrels with a little like, you know, the shiny object.
Jenn Donovan 33:29
But I think AI has given that to us, right? Because once upon a time, you were on Instagram, and if you wanted to know something, you had to go to Google, to Google that, because Instagram, unless that was their keyword or the hashtag they used or in their profile, like that wouldn’t work for you, whereas now it will. So where they’re changing our habits as well. Unfortunately, we are just like sheep, and we kind of just move with the trends.
Samantha Riley 33:53
Yeah, totally. You’ve got a podcast Small Business Made Simple. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about that?
Jenn Donovan 33:59
Yeah. So small business made simple. It’s what it says in the box. That is one of my biggest goals in my business, is to make small business simple for people. You know, there’s a lot of marketing out there that can be a little bit complicated, so myself and experts that I have come on the podcast, it’s just all about making it a little bit simpler, bite size, step by step, sort of stuff. So yeah, if you’re a podcast listener, which you clearly you are, because you’re listening to this one, come over there and have a bit of a listen.
Samantha Riley 34:32
Love it. Jen, thanks so much for coming on the show today and talking about all sorts. We went down a little bit of a rabbit hole there. But I said, I guess if I was looking at an overarching theme, it would definitely be around how to how many marketing revenue streams or platforms there are that we don’t actually need to pay for, and just with a little bit of time and a little bit of effort, we can actually move some, some big. Mountains with our businesses. So thank you for sharing.
Jenn Donovan 35:02
Yeah, absolute pleasure. I guess the caveat in it all is that nothing is for free. You know, your time, whatever you charge yourself out at, whether it’s $45 an hour or $300 now that’s how much free marketing is actually costing you. So yes, the strategy might be free, but it’s not actually free marketing, because your time is definitely worth money, so you need to be very conscious about that as well, but this has been a blast. Thanks so much for having
Samantha Riley 35:31
- Love it. Thanks, Jenn.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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