Increasing sales in your coaching business requires you to engage with people. However, most business owners are not comfortable speaking to others and promoting their products and services.
In this episode of the Influence By Design podcast, Samantha talks to Wendy Weiss, founder of Salesology® and recognised leading authority on lead generation, new business development, and sales.
There are many tactics you can use to grow your business, but you’ll get the best results from having actual conversations that could potentially lead to a sale. But as Wendy noticed, most coaches and consultants are afraid to pick up the phone and start a conversation with prospects, not realising that this is a powerful tool to build relationships.
If you are wanting more leads and clients, tune into this episode as Wendy shares how you can bring more people into your pipeline, the best way to overcome call reluctance, and how to form a sales team.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- Wendy’s transition from a professional ballet dancer to sales (01:05)
- The fundamental challenge with getting more people in your sales pipeline (02:40)
- The three-step process in establishing a sales team (07:11)
- The numbers you need to understand when prospecting (11:50)
- The best way to overcome your fear of sales calls (19:05)
- The secret to writing good sales scripts (25:19)
- How to become more comfortable with sales (29:08)
- “If you want to grow your business, you need to be speaking with prospects, and you need salespeople that are talking to prospects.” -Wendy Weiss
- “Sales is a learnable skill. When you master it, it’s very liberating and empowering.” -Wendy Weiss
- “Sales is such an important part of your business. If you’re not making sales, you don’t have a business – you have a hobby.” -Samantha Riley
WHERE TO FIND WENDY WEISS
- Website: https://gosalesology.com/
- Facebook: Wendy Weiss Salesology®
- LinkedIn: Wendy Weiss Salesology®
- Twitter: Wendy Weis
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BOOK AN INFLUENCE AUDIT
If you want to be known as the leader in your industry, book a quick 15-minute Influence Audit.
We’ll work together to identify:
- Your current situation and immediate opportunities for growth
- Uncover the #1 thing holding you back from not being booked as an industry leader
- Develop a 3-step implementation plan to increase your authority and visibility
ABOUT WENDY WEISS
Wendy Weiss is the founder of the Salesology® Prospecting Method that generates predictable sales revenue.
She is an author, speaker, sales trainer and sales coach and is recognized as a leading authority on lead generation, new business development and sales.
Wendy Weiss Snippet 00:00
It’s a learnable skill, it’s actually very liberating. It’s very empowering. Because the way I think about it is now you get to choose, you’re not being reactive. Just like whatever come business comes in the door where that’s what you’re doing. You get to choose where you want your business to be who you want to work with. And that’s so powerful.
Samantha Riley Intro (00:23):
My name is Samantha Riley, and this is the podcast for experts who want to be the unapologetic leader in their industry. We’re going to share the latest business growth, marketing, and leadership strategies, as well as discussing how you can use your human design to create success in business and life. Inside and out. It’s time to take your influence, income, and impact to the level you know you’re capable of. Are you ready to make a bigger difference and scale up? This is the Influence By Design podcast.
Welcome to today’s episode of influence by design, I’m your host Samantha Riley. And today I’m joined by Wendy Weiss, who is the founder of sales ology. We are obviously going to talk about a sales today and prospecting so that you can grow your business. She’s an author, speaker, sales trainer and sales coach and is recognized as a leading authority on lead generation new business development and sales. Welcome to the show, Wendy. It’s great to have you here.
Wendy Weiss 01:25
Watching thank you for inviting me to be here. Snapper,
Samantha Riley 01:29
fellow ballet dancers, I believe from an old I almost can’t believe or almost can’t remember that time of my life because it feels like it was so long ago now. Oh, that’s
Wendy Weiss 01:40
funny. I still dance. It’s I feel like everything I know in life and business I learned in ballet class. I still dance.
Samantha Riley 01:53
I think that’s fantastic. Let’s jump right in. Well, actually, I’d love you to share what brought you from a dance. How did you end up going from ballet class? And being a professional dancer to sales?
Wendy Weiss 02:10
Yeah, weird, isn’t it? Because ballet dancers don’t even talk.
Samantha Riley 02:15
But I mentioned that all the time.
Wendy Weiss 02:20
Yeah, we don’t talk we dance. Yeah. And you know, my first career was I dance with Pittsburgh Ballet Theater, and I danced with the Cincinnati ballet. And I got into my current field completely by accident, because in between some dance jobs, I needed a day job. And I got a job with a telemarketing agency that did business development. And lucky for me, they taught me this skill. And learning this skill was transformational. Because years later, it enabled me to build a business. And so today in my company sales, ology, we work with business owners that are sick at the frustration, the boom and the bust, never quite sure where your next client is coming from. And we help them build a pipeline of opportunities faster and more easily and and more profitably. Well, I
Samantha Riley 03:22
don’t know any business leader that doesn’t want that at all. Why don’t you start off by really helping us to understand what are the frustrations? Or what are the challenges that so many coaches and consultants have regarding getting more people into their pipeline? Well, I
Wendy Weiss 03:40
think one of the fundamental challenges that I see are coaches, consultants, we have clients that they’re just afraid to pick up the phone and talk to people they don’t know. And Samantha and I were kind of laughing about this before we started, but you know, I said to her, I’ve never seen a study that says you get more clients by not talking to people. And the truth is, if you want to grow your business, you need to be speaking with prospects, and then you also down the line need salespeople that are talking to prospects. And lots of times people will say to me, Well, I want to build relationships and you do want to build relationships, but in order to build relationship you have to talk to people
Samantha Riley 04:31
could not agree more, but I think that’s our, our old school and showing our age where to me, I’m always saying just pick up the phone and speak to someone. It just cuts down the time that you need to I guess I was gonna say waste but that’s not really what I meant. But you can speed up that relationship so much faster when you have a conversation.
Wendy Weiss 04:53
Not only that cement that you know there is research is done at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. And they tested written communication against spoken communication. So written communication is you email someone or you text them, or it’s a social media post, or maybe you write them a letter. And spoken communication is when you’re actually face to face with someone, or maybe on a zoom call like this, or on the phone, or even a voicemail. And what they found out was that if people hear you talk, even if it’s just on a voicemail, they’re one they think you’re smarter. And two, they’re more likely to respond to act on whatever it is you’re saying. And that’s why it’s important to use the phone to pick up the phone and talk to people because it just works better.
Samantha Riley 05:59
When you think about it, you read an email, and it’s just words on a page, and it doesn’t matter who’s behind the writing of it. We’re reading all of the, you know, gosh, we read hundreds of emails a day, most of us, but when you hear someone’s voice, you hear their tonality, you hear their, you know, their pitch, you feel like you can get to know someone by hearing their voice.
Wendy Weiss 06:21
Yeah, and we, human beings are intuitive, we read each other all day long. And, you know, when you’re speaking with someone, intuitively, you have a grasp of who you relax. And intuitively you have a grasp of who you’re talking to. And because that’s what we do, as human beings, we read each other all the time. And it’s easier when you’re face to face with someone, it’s definitely easier. But again, this is a skill set. And I want to emphasize this because you know, there’s this myth, I know, you’ve heard it, Samantha, there’s a myth of the Born salesperson that there are these people out there, they they’re just born knowing what to do and born knowing what to say, this is a myth. It’s not true. You know, I’m not a born salesperson, I was really lucky because I got that day job. All those years ago, they taught me this skill. learning this skill was completely transformational, taught me to how to build a business. And so the really good news for anybody that’s struggling with this is, like learn it, you can learn it, too. It’s a skill.
Samantha Riley 07:40
I love that so much. Now, you and I were talking a little bit earlier about sort of once you get to that point where you are maxed out on time, that one of the things that we need to think about as business owners is to hire a sales team. But it’s not as easy as that sounds like one day, I don’t want to do my sales anymore, I’ll find someone else to do it. What is the I guess? What does that transition period looks like? What needs to be prepared? And what do we need to have in place to be able to bring a sales team on?
Wendy Weiss 08:14
That’s such a great question, because I have clients that come to me all the time and say I want to hire a salesperson, and I say great, but he has no place for them. And the answer is nothing. So actually, I’m gonna refer back to what I learned in ballet class, because what I learned in ballet class, and I know you know, this, Samantha, if you’re a dancer, and you have a concert coming up, you don’t just run out on stage and start dancing. You have to warm up, you have to get set up to do what you have to do, so that you don’t have a career ending injury. And elite athletes do the same thing. They don’t just run out on the field and start playing the game, they warm up so that they don’t have a career ending injury. If you’re a business owner, there are things you need to have in place for a salesperson so that they don’t hurt themselves. They don’t hurt you and they don’t hurt your bottom line. So those things are a very clear definition of your market. This answer is not everyone. And we probably don’t have time to go into that today that you need to have that very clear definition of who they’re reaching out to what makes a great lead for you or your salesperson in your market with your offering. Then you need to have a clear definition of your your sales process your prospecting process, your sales process, because if you say to somebody go sell. You don’t actually know what they’re going to do. So and if somebody doesn’t know what do if you’ve hired a brand new person with no experience at all, that could stop them in their tracks because they just don’t know what to do. So you need to have that very clear definition of your process. And then you need a really clear definition of your message because they are telling your unique story. And you want them to represent you well to, to tell your story in a way that is authentic and compelling. So they’re not going to be able to figure that on their own, figure that out on their own, they’re going to need some help. So these this is your warm up what you have to have in place before you hire a salesperson, so that they don’t hurt themselves. They don’t hurt you. They don’t hurt your bottom line.
Samantha Riley 10:53
I love it. Is that the first step? Is there another two
Wendy Weiss 10:56
steps? That’s step one. There are two more steps.
Samantha Riley 11:00
Yeah, that’s what I thought my my poor brain was then did I miss two steps in there?
Wendy Weiss 11:07
No, I have three steps. It’s my the sales ology prospecting model is three steps that I learned in ballet class. All right, and step number one is warm up, we started the bar BA, rr E, that’s our warm up. And your warm up as a business owner is clear definition of the target clear definition of the process, clear definition of the message because they’re telling your unique story.
Samantha Riley 11:36
Before we go into the other two steps, something that I hear, I don’t hear it a lot. But it does come up every now and again, is people saying oh, I just need someone to do my sales. But when I dig a little bit deeper, it’s not that they need someone to do their sales, it’s that they haven’t even got any leads in the first place. There’s a bit of a confusion between leads and sales. What would you say? Is the I guess the parameters? How would someone know they’re ready to hire a team? And know that there’s not a leads problem and know that it’s actually a sales team that they want to bring on? What are the some of the symptoms or some you know, some of the things that they’re going to be noticing in their business?
Wendy Weiss 12:18
Oh, that’s such a great question. And what a business owner really needs to know. Are there numbers. Now, my dancer joke is I count up to eight and then I start over again. But there are actual numbers that you need to know when it comes to prospecting. The numbers that we track in our programs. Our coaching program is called 3x appointments. Because typically people at least double if not triple their numbers. But we track dials meaning how many times did someone dial the phone conversations with the right person? And then appointments scheduled? And then you want to track? How many? How many times do you have to speak with a prospect before they become a client? Once you have that initial appointment? And it’s going to be different for everyone? It depends what your market is what you’re offering is, but usually you’re gonna have to speak with that prospect. Two times three times, maybe maybe more. So what is the process? How many meetings? Do you have to have with a potential client before they say yes to you? What are the numbers in terms of how many first appointments do you have to have to close one sale? You need to know all of these numbers. Because when you know your numbers, then you have something that you can evaluate a salesperson against. We often have business owners that come to us that take the 3x appointments program solopreneurs. They say I want to hire a salesperson, I want them to set appointments for me. They take the 3x appointments program, they learn a prospecting system, they implement it, so that they can prove the model. Then they hire a salesperson. Because if you’re a business owner, and you can set up, you can dial the phone 100 times and set up 10 appointments a week or whatever your numbers are. A salesperson should be able to do at least what you can do. Because that’s their job and you’re wearing 10 billion different hats.
Samantha Riley 14:33
Wendy Weiss 14:35
So, know your numbers first. It’s not, you know, people say Oh, it’s so gift of gab. No. I mean, Anna Pavlova, the great Russian ballerina. She danced in the late 19th, early 20th century. She was the first ballerina to tour the world with her own company. She very famously said no one arrived. Some talent alone. Work transforms talent into genius. And a pavlova was born with a whole lot of talent to dance. And then she studied at the Imperial Russian ballet school, she learned her craft, she learned what she was doing. That’s what enabled her to tour the world. So you need to have a system in place for your newly hired salespeople so they can become sales rockstars.
Samantha Riley 15:26
I love that metaphor. That’s so true. So true. All right, so we’ve got the warm up step. Once warm up is achieved, what’s the second thing you learned in ballet class?
Wendy Weiss 15:37
Okay, the second thing I learned in ballet class is to model on above lava. Step number two is rehearse on a pavlova train for eight years at the Imperial Russian Ballet School. Then she joined the Imperial Russian ballet and ballet de ILF. And then she toured the world with her own company, she was born with a lot of talent, then she trained for eight years, it will not take you or your newly hired salesperson eight years, to learn how to fill a pipeline full of qualified opportunities, you can learn to do that in a matter of few weeks, a couple of months, maybe it is a completely learnable skill. So just like on a pavlova, though, you need to learn your craft. There’s certain this is a skill set we’re talking about. But the really good news is it can be learned. And just like you know, Tom Brady, what is it seven Super Bowls, LeBron James, I forget how many NBA championships you know it. It’s a learnable skill. But what is successful people do they learn their craft, and then they practice their craft. That’s what makes them successful. It’s not magic. It’s not intuitive. Nobody is born knowing how to do this. You’re not born knowing how to do it. Your newly hired salesperson isn’t born knowing how to do it either.
Samantha Riley 17:02
Yeah. So that’s the second step. And I’d love to know the third step,
Wendy Weiss 17:07
the third step after you have warmed up, so you’re prepared. And you have rehearsed, because one thing we didn’t talk about was muscle memory. But when you do the same thing over and over and over again, you get muscle memory, it’s automatic, you don’t have to think about it, you can just do it. And so once you have warmed up, you’re prepared. you’ve rehearsed, you have automatic muscle memory, then and only then is it time to perform. And I’ll address the elephant in the room, which I know is call reluctance. Everyone’s afraid to pick up the phone. And to me, Samantha, this is an awful lot like stage fright. And I’ve been there I bet you’ve been there too. You know, you’re you’re waiting in the wings. And your heart is pounding and you think you’re gonna throw up. And then you hear your music. And you get out on stage and you dance. Well, what enables you to do that when you’re completely terrified? Well, you’ve warmed up, so you’re prepared. And you’ve rehearsed. So you have your automatic muscle memory. That’s what enables execution. And what I’ve seen in all the years that I have been doing this working with salespeople working with business owners, is for most people, once they learn a really simple system, and they know what they’re doing every step along the path. And they have warmed up so they’re prepared and they’ve rehearsed. So they have that automatic muscle memory. That, then the fear goes away. That’s what enables performance. So those are the three steps that I learned in ballet class. First you warm up, then you rehearse, then and only then do you perform
Samantha Riley 19:00
love it. I want to go back to the call reluctance because I think that this is a huge challenge that’s that affects so many people. What are some of the things that you find with people that you work with that come to you with call reluctance? Because I’m sure they do. I’m sure they’re not just in my world that helps them to pick up the phone like what what are some of the, I guess, is it mindset? Is it to having a template? Like what is it that can help you to get over that fear?
Wendy Weiss 19:33
Well, the things that I was just talking about in the warm up, that’s really step one. And when somebody comes to one of our programs, that’s actually what we do first. So we do all the preparation, and that includes writing scripts. Now, lots of times people will say to me, Wendy, I don’t want to use this script. I don’t want to sound You know, I don’t want to be phony and I agree. You don’t want to be phony, but they’ll let you in there. Secret, which is everybody uses scripts, you know, you probably have an elevator speech. That’s a script, you probably have certain questions you get asked all the time and you kind of have a standard answer. That’s a script, probably maybe their objections you hear all the time you kind of have a standard response. This is a script. So the question is not, should I use this script? The question is, does this script work? And I would argue, if prospects will not engage with you, like, maybe you even have the inbound leads, and they won’t talk to you, your script doesn’t work. So what we do in our programs is we help everyone in our programs, create the talking points, the scripts that they can use, that they can be comfortable with, that are real, that are authentic. And we do step two, we practice. And that just really helps. Most people kind of calm down. And I will share with you, and all of all of your audience. Samantha, I’ve been doing this for 25 years, I swear to God, no one’s ever died.
Samantha Riley 21:16
knows if no one’s ever died from being on the phone or using a script.
Wendy Weiss 21:21
Never Never once in my 25 years, but this is a good thing. Yes. And you know, that this shift in mindset comes over time, because there are the facts. And then there’s the stories, you tell yourself about the facts, you know what the facts are, you’re going to reach out to another human being, you’re going to pick up the phone, you’re going to dial the phone, you either reach them, or you don’t reach them. If you reach them, you’ll say something, they will say something that’s pretty much it that those are the facts. This story is I’m bothering them, they don’t want to talk to me, they’re really busy, they’re gonna be mad that I called them there could have reject me. What if you had a different story? You know, what if your story was it, I have something of real value. And I’ve done my homework. Going back to the warm up, clear definition of the target. I’ve done my homework. So I’m reaching out to prospects, that I’m pretty sure could use my help. And I’m calling to introduce myself. And it’s likely that I’m going to be talking to somebody that has a challenge that I could help them with. And if I don’t reach out, I’m really doing them a disservice if they have a problem. And I could fix it. Like, what if that was your story? What would change. And so a lot of this, it starts with the foundational things that you need to have in place. And it also it starts to become a shift in the way you think about it.
Samantha Riley 23:04
It’s just a perception shift. It’s amazing the stories that we can tell ourselves, and I feel that around sales and around picking up the phone, like you just mentioned, there can be a lot of stories, and they’re not stories that are empowering.
Wendy Weiss 23:22
Never, never, and always so interesting to me, because I have clients that can tell me in great detail, what prospects that they have never spoken with, or had any kind of interchange at all. They like they can tell me in great detail what these people are thinking.
Samantha Riley 23:41
Wow. Cuz that’s so not true.
Wendy Weiss 23:47
No, I mean, go get a reality TV show if you can read minds, but for everybody else, you know, you don’t know what your prospects thinking, maybe they’re thinking, I really need help with this. And you’re not calling them you’re not letting them know.
Samantha Riley 24:02
Yeah, so you know, that you could help them. You’re not serving at the highest level?
Wendy Weiss 24:07
No, no, and I looked up the word sell in the dictionary. And the word sound means to persuade someone of the value of whatever it is you’re selling. So the concept of value is inherent in the definition of the word sell. And I think that’s something that’s really important to keep in the front of your mind. Because it’s about offering value. And it’s part of the definition.
Samantha Riley 24:45
Love it. Love it so much. I wanted to go back and just touch on scripts ever so quickly, because I think that the reason that people don’t like using scripts is because in their mind, they feel like they’re not being unauthentic because they’re just reading it like, hello, Wendy, great to speak with you today? Well, I think that that’s what they’re thinking about a script, rather than a script being some sort of template so that we know the flow that needs to be achieved in the call. Can you? You know, I’m guessing you agree with that? I hope
Wendy Weiss 25:23
not. I absolutely agree with that. And you know, it’s funny, because we have all been trained really well in school, that when you write, there’s a capital letter at the beginning of a sentence and a period at the end, and you need a noun, and you need the verb. And we’ve all been trained very well, to write that way. And we do, you know, in our program, we make everybody write their script down. So they have it. But here’s the secret. When you write a script, you need to write it the way you talk. Because we don’t talk, the way we write. And, you know, if you’re listening to, you know, go and transcribe this podcast, you will see that neither Samantha and I are talking in complete sentences with a period. No human being, say I’m into, I just said, Ah, yeah. So, what I actually have my clients do is call up their voicemail and tucked into the voicemail. And then write down what you just said, without any punctuation.
Samantha Riley 26:37
Whoa, that’s a bit clever.
Wendy Weiss 26:40
Yeah. And then, you know, tell your story. Give an example. How do you want to introduce yourself? What’s your elevator speech? Because your elevator speech is probably not. Hello, Samantha? How are you today? I work with you know, that’s probably not your elevator speech. So call up your voicemail, just talking to your voicemail, and then write it down and resist the urge to turn it into sentences.
Samantha Riley 27:09
love it so much. Wendy, I know that you have a very cool and valuable tool that you use to help people to grow their sales. Can you share a little bit about you know what it is and who this would be helpful for?
Wendy Weiss 27:24
Absolutely. We put together 81 tools to grow sales and your business faster, more easily, more profitably. And this started out really as a resource guide, it was tools that we were using internally, databases different, you know, different tools that we use, and clients started asking us well, what do you use for this? And what do you use for that? And we just started compiling all these different tools, automation tools, CRMs data resources, there’s it just packed with resources that businesses can use to grow sales and to grow their business, and there’s 81 of them. So and you’re gonna post that, that link with the show notes, right?
Samantha Riley 28:16
Absolutely. I’ll put that link in the show notes. So wherever you’re listening, you can find it down below or whatever platform you are on or over at, influenced by design. podcast.com. Wendy, what is the one thing that you want to leave listeners with today around sales? because sales is such an important part of business? If we’re not making sales, we don’t have a business, we’ve got a hobby. So what is this like one thing that you want to leave people with today?
Wendy Weiss 28:43
Well, the one thing I’d like to leave everyone with today, I’ll go back to my honor, pavlova, quote, which is, no one arrives from talent alone work transforms talent into genius. And if you’re uncomfortable with sales, you don’t know what to do. You don’t think you’re a good salesperson. It’s okay. You’re not alone. And I’m not a born salesperson either. I was just really lucky because I got that job. They taught me this skill set. So the really good news for any of you that are really, you’re uncomfortable or just don’t know what to do. This is a skill and you can learn it too. And you know, we have resources you can go to go to Sales ology.com That’s, that’s our website. If you don’t like anything I said today, both are resources available, you know, but it’s a learnable skill and it is not. It’s actually very liberating. It’s very empowering. Because the way I think about it, is now you get to choose, you’re not being reactive. Just like whatever come business comes in the door. Well, that’s what you’re doing. You get to choose where you want your business to be who you want to work with. And that’s so powerful.
Samantha Riley 30:06
Yeah, I love that. A lot of people say that they don’t like sales. But I don’t think that that’s what they actually mean. And I’ll explain why. Because if you think about that moment where you made a sale, and you enrolled, a champagne client, one of your ideal clients, and think about the feeling you have at the time that you enroll them, is that something that you feel good about? Or is it something you don’t feel good about? Because really, at the end of the day, there is nothing more exciting than making a sale like it gives you mojo to keep going. So I would actually say that for most people that say, I don’t like sales, what they mean, is something that’s completely different, and that they actually do love sales.
Wendy Weiss 30:53
That’s another opportunity to just serve the people that you serve.
Samantha Riley 30:59
100% Yeah. Wendy, thanks so much for joining me today. It’s been an absolute pleasure chatting with you.
Wendy Weiss 31:06
Oh, my pleasure, Samantha. Thank you for having me.
Samantha Outro 31:10
Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Influence By Design podcast. If you want more head over to influencebydesignpodcast.com for the show notes and links to today’s gifts and sponsors. And if you’re looking to connect with other experts who are growing and scaling their business to join us in the coaches, thought leaders, and changemakers community on Facebook, the links are waiting for you over at influencebydesignpodcast.com