Influence is described as the power to affect or change other people’s behaviour or a situation, but how could you harness your influence to create more impact?
In this episode of Influence by Design, I share a fun and insightful conversation about how to take your influence and impact to the next level with Ian Crawford. Ian is a leadership and influence expert ingrained with incredible curiosity and a deep-seated desire to help others.
Not a lot of people are aware that influence starts with themselves. It may sound easy but being able to successfully influence others begins with immense self-reflection and the ability to understand oneself.
Harnessing impact by leveraging your influence creates meaningful relationships, fosters better communication, and encourages others to look at things from a different perspective.
With Ian’s expertise on the subject, you’ll discover ways to take your influence to the next level.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- The major pivot – from PE teacher to leadership expert (03:17)
- The difference between influence and manipulation (08:00)
- The starting point of influence (11:45)
- How to create a greater influence (16:28)
- Preventing self-sabotage by pushing boundaries (22:05)
- How to become a good speaker and facilitator (28:48)
- Guide to becoming a world-class expert in delivering your message (39:55)
QUOTES:
- “Communication is about the result that you get and not how you deliver it.” -Ian Crawford
- “If we want to push people and get them to think outside the box, we have to build rapport.” -Ian Crawford
- “You can’t become a better speaker unless you speak.” -Ian Crawford
- “To influence people, we do need to be controversial sometimes.” -Samantha Riley
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WHERE TO FIND IAN CRAWFORD
- Website: https://icrawford.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/i-crawford/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ian_s_crawfo
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/iancrawfordleadership/
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ABOUT IAN CRAWFORD
Formerly a Physical Education teacher, Ian has taught and coached in the United Kingdom, France, Spain, and Canada in sports ranging from Soccer to Shooting, Archery to Abseiling. During time with mountain rescue in Wales and as a personal trainer in London, Ian worked closely with elite sporting teams and global business leaders
Ian returned to Perth to work as an Organisational Consultant with the Ministry of Sport and Recreation, which saw him work throughout Australia, Botswana, Lesotho, Malaysia, and India.
Several years working in event management (e.g., World Triathlon, Rottnest Chanel Swim and City to Surf) refocused his interest in the high-performance mind set.
As the owner and principal trainer of Candor Training and Consultancy, he trains and coaches’ leaders and their teams in Australia and internationally, including Denmark, Mongolia, America, Spain, Africa, China, and Vietnam. Ian specialises in assisting groups become more sustainable high performing teams.
In addition to his leadership work he continues to be a highly regarded performance coach for business owners and members of professional sporting teams throughout Australia.
TRANSCRIPTION (AI Generated)
Ian Crawford Snippet (00:00):
As a facilitator, I’ve got to a point where I can turn up and go. It’s not about me, it’s about the outcome. And that allows me to step out. And so therefore, if another person in the room wants to take control the conversation, and now my job is to keep it on track, then so be it. I think my role is there to keep people safe. It can get a bit wieldy sometimes, but apart from that, knock yourself out, as long as we get to where we need to get. I don’t care who drives it.
Samantha Riley Intro 00:27:
My name is Samantha Riley, and this is the podcast for experts who want to be the unapologetic leader in their industry. We’re going to share the latest business growth, marketing, and leadership strategies, as well as discussing how you can use your human design to create success in business and life. Inside and out. It’s time to take your influence, income, and impact to the level you know you’re capable of. Are you ready to make a bigger difference and scale up? This is the Influence By Design podcast.
Welcome to today’s episode of Influence By Design, I’m your host, Samantha Riley,
And I’m really looking forward to this conversation. today. We’re going to be talking about increasing your influence and all things influence. And I’ve invited my guest today, Ian Crawford, who is formerly a physical education teacher, and now he’s doing some amazing things all around the world. He’s worked in the UK, France, Spain, Canada, all stuff. Gosh, every time I see him on social media, he’s giving workshops to something organization in the world. He’s doing amazing things. So welcome to the show. Ian, it’s great to have you here.
Ian Crawford (01:40):
Finally, great to be here.
Samantha Riley (01:42):
I know we have been having this conversation about you being on the podcast, I’m going to guess at least four years, at least.
Ian Crawford (01:53):
I know that’s my fault. I’m sorry.
Samantha Riley (01:55):
Well, you know, you are a busy person for anyone that follows you on the socials. And if you if you aren’t following Ian by the end of this conversation today, I’m sure you want to be. But there’s usually three or four stories every day of you giving a workshop to someone somewhere in the world from, you know, a fancy bougie Zoom call to people all around the world to in the middle of the night to people in mining areas. You just do it all.
Ian Crawford (02:26):
And I love it. There’s it took a while for sure. But being able to get up each day and just go on this goal is just a great feeling and thinking last night last night, I was talking to a bunch of people, pharmaceutical people who build new molecules in Belgium. Wow. Blows me away and then linking it back to the next visit teacher. Yeah, and I’m talking about sort of stuff is so good.
Samantha Riley (02:54):
It is so good. Tell us you’re an ex visit phys ed teacher PE for those of us in Australia. I’m that student that was always like making up fake notes as to why I couldn’t do PE student
Ian Crawford (03:11):
nine Samantha’s mum. Yeah, exactly
Samantha Riley (03:13):
that was me. How did you take the transition from being a teacher to what you’re doing today?
Ian Crawford (03:23):
So really interesting comment because I finished my education, university and I’d planned to do the whole academic thing go through do masters PhD. And I started that and one of my mates said, You know what, we’ve been in education for the last X years, let’s go do something different. And they sent me off. We all headed off to France, where I was a watersports instructor in the south of France teaching windsurfing and sailing and, and then went on to leadership. Now the time off those camps and non summer, it was in the UK, and I got a job as a personal trainer. Little did I know that that personal trainer job in the company, we had contracts or major elite sporting clubs where we did the conditioning or the rehabilitation and as a 23 year old, naive little Western Australian. I certainly was in front of these most incredible people. And one of the things I was doing is physiologically testing people right down to muscle biopsies, looking into athletes going, you’re exactly the same physically, why so much better. Then fast forward doing the same with general managers and CEOs of global companies and be able to spend private one on one time for an hour talking to them? I started getting really interested in going well hang on a second. Why is this person and this person like, ah, yeah, got the same background. And that sort of got me interested in this whole high performance thing from that point of thing rather than that point of thing.
Samantha Riley (04:55):
So if you’re listening, we’re talking about the brains rather than the brawn. Yeah,
Ian Crawford (05:00):
so interested about what was inside the head rather than, you know how much they could lift and how fast they can run. Yeah. And then I returned to WA and decided teaching wasn’t my thing in schools, and I got a job with the department sport and recreation. And I got into organizational development, and I got into coach development and sporting coaching development that is, and so that really got me to do the things that I’m doing right now. But just in a sport, not for profit setting. And years ago, long service leave, I went, you know, what I’m going to start a business in working with not for profits and sports groups. Now, that’s it’s a terrible business model, because both groups have zero money. And one of my friends, colleagues, our friend of mine, my mentor, for a long time, he used to be the Australian volleyball coach, and then correct, the bow facilitator, Blaze churna, kowski. Hey, come over here and help me deliver. And that was it. I was into leadership and teams and you know, the whole commercial organization type things. And I’ve been loving it, ever since, in the last 11 years that I’ve been doing this,
Samantha Riley (06:04):
Wow, I love these stories of how people wind up doing what they’re doing. Because it just shows that there’s no direct line from A to B. And even though we know that and I put that know, in air quotes, a lot of people still feel like as they’re going through this journey, and I hosted a lunch just last week, actually with, with 15. Really, you know, amazing coaches that of all got, you know, really large businesses. And every single one of them had the same thing, oh, we’re going through this transition, or, you know, we’re working through this thing. And it’s so frustrating, we kind of can’t get there. And even though we know logically that that’s the way it is, it can be frustrating. So it’s really helpful to hear that other people have this, this journey to go, you know what, it’s okay. It’s okay. And I do need to be going through these these, say challenges. But I guess the journey as it’s meant to be,
Ian Crawford (07:03):
I think one of the really key things and I didn’t realize I was on to an interview or Skype thing imaging the other day with a whole stack of university from Sydney University. And they’re asking me questions. And one of the things I realized, and it was just amazing at 50 Plus now that when I was nine years old, someone said, Why do you want to be a teacher? And my response was, I want to help at least one person as a 19 year old, but that could still continue, that’s driven, everything that I’ve done, even if I didn’t realize that, that value of just trying to make an impact on one person. I think that’s a life well lived if I can do that. And but now it’s put, hopefully, it’s got you to a larger number than one. But that’s what’s driving me and makes those changes on reflection a lot easier and willing to do because it aligns deep down with what you want to do.
Samantha Riley (07:54):
Yeah, totally, totally. We’re talking today about influence. Before we dive in, what is influence? How would you define influence?
Ian Crawford (08:04):
It’s a great question, because as soon as I say influence, people hear manipulation. And oh, we
Samantha Riley (08:10):
just talked about this on the podcast last week.
Ian Crawford (08:15):
Now must be there’s two things, one, manipulation is easy, but not good. And it comes from the wrong intent. Manipulation is set up and inflation oops. Influence is simply, in my mind, getting people to look at things differently. And so if they’re stuck in one place, and you can just let them get them to peek over the fence at another option, or another way of doing things or a different thought pattern. That’s a great start. And from that point on, you can then go further in regards to how much they take on that thought or idea. Never do I believe that I want to take away their ability to think or want to do stuff they don’t want to do, because it just doesn’t align with me. And it’s, they’ll come back to bite you if you’re gonna go down that road. So it’s simply a starting point of, Hey, check this out, have a look at it. And from that point on, it can go anywhere. And
Samantha Riley (09:12):
I love that so much. And, you know, with NLP and all of these, you know, language patents, and all of these amazing tools that we’ve got at our, and I was considered a disposal, but I guess in our tool belt is probably a nicer way to say it. You know, one of my first mentors said to me, like we’ve got all these things he said, before we even start, we’re using these for good, because they can be used for manipulation. And we’ve seen people use them for manipulation. And I know that anyone that’s listening to this podcast, and everyone that’s in my world is very much against manipulation. And what is really interesting is that when, you know a few years ago when the word influencer came out, there was so many people in our world that said we don’t Want to be part of this? We don’t want to be part of this manipulation and these, you know, greasy sales tactics have run to the back of the room. We don’t want to be an influencer and, and, you know, just peddling our our wares to anyone that would listen. And I feel that it’s almost given the word influence a bit of a, a nasty wrapping or sort of it’s got a bit of a shadow there, if that makes sense. And I think what you’ve said there is right and sorry, you were gonna go on there?
Ian Crawford (10:28):
Well, that’s okay. It seems to me, there’s also you’re totally correct. And there’s something I’ve had to consider that when I do the marketing and promotion of what I do, also, Google, you type in NLP. And the first 100 Things you get at the top is all manipulation. You know how to pick up chicks and how to do this. And it’s like, Oh, my goodness, you’ve completely got the idea of what this can be used for. Yeah. And you’re bad person. Stop it. All right, those people? Yeah, it’s been it’s been challenging time. But again, just sticking to what we know. And people see through that stuff.
Samantha Riley (11:09):
100%, there’s definitely an energy behind it. And whether or not people, I don’t really like this word, but we were whether they’re woowoo or not, it’s a real thing. We feel the energy. We know if something’s good. We know something just feels off. And so I guess let’s set the foundation that what we’re talking today is using influence for good, because we do need to change people’s views, otherwise they end up going down non resourceful pants.
Ian Crawford (11:39):
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
Samantha Riley (11:42):
So where does influence start? Because when we talk about influence, where often saying, Well, I want to influence, you know, person B over there. But where does it begin?
Ian Crawford (11:57):
It starts with you. And when I say is that with the individual that’s trying to influence other people. It’s also the biggest speed bump to be hard to do this well, because it requires a lot of self reflection, it requires a good understanding of yourself. If you’re going to be an influencer. Oh, my goodness, I use that word.
Samantha Riley (12:18):
We’re giving it a different meaning. Today, we’re not talking about you know, Kenny k here.
Ian Crawford (12:24):
Dancing or something on tickets?
Samantha Riley (12:26):
No, no, it’s
Ian Crawford (12:27):
not gonna happen. No one, no one wants to see that. That would influence people to switch off. So when we look at because, obviously, we run into the world with a model of the world, the way we see things, our values and beliefs sucking information to fulfill those things, which is fine, right up to the point where I’m trying to understand and then influence someone with a different wiring. And I see it all the time where leaders, they walk up to someone and try to influence them, ranging from a safety issue all the way through to a promotion, or to do a new task or to move through change. And when they deliver the message in one way, and it doesn’t work. All they do is go back and deliver the message again, in exactly the same way, but usually louder. And that’s not how it works. And it’s looking at the other person and being very able quickly to be able to see as well, how do they communicate what’s important to them? What’s their values? What’s their beliefs, what do they do in their private life that helps them feel fulfilled, and then understanding that and then packaging, that’s an important part, packing the message. So it just lands in their brain nicely. And I think that term packaging, the message is essential. Because sometimes when I start talking about this, people start saying, Well, hang on, I’m not being me anymore. I’m not being who I am. I’m saying to myself, no, no, I’m not changing the outcome. I’m not changing your values, I’m not changing your beliefs, all I’m doing is wrapping up the delivery of it in a different colored bow. And that I want to match the bow. And if at the very least, in regards to this process, I love it. Because I have to show high levels of respect to someone, I have to listen to them carefully. I have to be right there with them in the moment, simply to gather that information. And if simply by doing it, and that’s all I do with it, the other person is going to know they not really listening to them because it’s such a rare thing for people Yes, and to experience and even at that level. I’m okay to cut it off there. Because it’s a nice thing. It’s an important thing to them, shows I see them, I respect them, I hear them, etc. And then they can go on and are all the tools afterwards but understanding their model of the world, how they take in information. What’s important to them is is really important. And it’s and this this came up my career when I first started, I worked in the sports industry, lots of energy, lots of extroverted type people, things like that, then I’m thrusted into the world of engineers. Right? completely opposite. added, I was looking again, wake up, hello, anyone there, all they’re doing is processing the information very good.
Samantha Riley (15:24):
I was just about to say my son’s an engineer and having conversation with him is very different. To I’ve got one son, you’ve already mentioned volleyball that is very into volleyball. And what haven’t watching them try and communicate together is hilarious, because they do not understand each other as well. So the way they process
Ian Crawford (15:45):
is that it’s entertaining for us terrible for them. Yeah,
Samantha Riley (15:48):
it’s really terrible for them. Although watching it, sometimes I get frustrated, too. So heads together. That’s not the way we do it. We put across with that one. So I just want to go back a little bit. So you told me about packaging the messaging. And I do want to dive into that. But I just want to go take a couple of steps back, because he talked about values and beliefs. And the way we see things in our model of the world. How much work as influences do you think, and I’m on two different sides of the fence here? So this is what your belief, I guess, how much work do we need to do around that? For us to create a greater influence?
Ian Crawford (16:35):
That’s a really good question. And the answer is, if you want to be a strong influence, the answer would have to be a lot. Mm hmm. I think one of the things we have to be really aware of is that values appear in people’s worlds very, very differently. We, you and I can have exactly the same value. But if we looked at our behaviors, it would be incredibly different. Being able to hear what people say that would give you some clue, as well as asking questions like for what reason? Is that important to you? Where does it come from, and hearing the answers to that really gives us an understanding, but again, to be able to flex and bend and shape the communication to them, you have to be able to hear you first as to what your values and beliefs and, and one of the things that I’ve had to had to become very aware of is that feeling of when people are bumping into your values. And that feeling of yeah, for me, it’s a tightness in the throat and a tightness in the chest. That’s my psychological response to it. And but I see that now is a tap on the shoulder and going, Hey, what you’re experiencing is different values, then that allows me to do two things, one, to change the course to be able to do something differently, but at the same time, very quickly say to myself, go hang on, that’s a value things. Or you’re feeling I was judging their values, interestingly enough that I’m getting is somewhere deep in the back of my head, it’s going my values are more important to us. Absolutely, incredibly, not now, have I had conversations in coaching around the world, about things that their behaviors are so far outside my value set that I can’t see my values anymore if I go to them, and but once again, it’s their values. And I think understanding that and respecting that is a really important thing for us. And when I’m trying to influence me from a coaching point of view, is I really try to chunk up to those values. Because it’s also easy to influence once you understand why it’s important to be able to shift people. Because if we can shift and influence and guide people within their values, they’re going to stay on board, or run for the hills. And that can be a challenge. And I’ve just recently worked with for first on a long time I do some youth leadership stuff here in WA. Yeah, I’m not very good at that anymore. And it was just really interesting, because they probably have the same values as me, but the way a 16 year old takes on the world and fulfills those values of connection, for example, is really different to mine. And for example, one of the groups that I work with my volunteer staff is working with at risk teenage boys. And it’s really one of the values is connections, for example, I’m guessing you don’t have that sort of conversation with six year old boys. Yeah. And what do I know that because they’re constantly trying to connect with me, be close to me tackle me being next to me. And the way they’re doing it is suddenly about 515 year olds tackling me to the ground. And you know, wrestling me now it’s like, what’s going on? I’m too old for this but that’s the one If they’re either saying, hey, that’s how I’m connecting, or they’re putting their hand up and saying, Hey, look at me. And I can quite easily get frustrated and annoyed at that. But I need to take it on from a 15 year old behavior, not a 52 year old type. And again, that takes a lot of flexing. Yeah. Because it could be
Samantha Riley (20:19):
also really annoying. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally. Totally.
Ian Crawford (20:25):
So it’s a really, again, it’s about coming back and taking a deep breath go and Okay, well, for reasonably doing that. For what reason they saying that? Yeah, rather than wrong, and you’re annoying.
Samantha Riley (20:34):
Yeah. Yeah. I love that so much. For as influences. And we are influenced, I think we need to get rid of the the idea that influence only has one way of seeing it, I guess, that you talked about being able to or doing that work, so that we’re able to influence larger groups, I’d love you to talk about the challenge that people have with themselves. You talked about, like, you know, them doing the work, when all of a sudden we are in a space where we’re influencing larger groups. And I’m talking about this from the standpoint of how much a self sabotage that can come in, when all of a sudden we are propelled onto a bigger stage. Does that make sense?
Ian Crawford (21:20):
Oh, my goodness, gracious. Yeah. It’s a terrifying thing sometimes, isn’t it?
Samantha Riley (21:23):
It is absolutely terrifying. I don’t know about you, but I still have it. You know, you’ll say something that’s controversial. And I believe that to influence people, we do need to be controversial. Sometimes, we need to create that Sandpoint doesn’t make it any easier. And in fact, like, you know, even Brene Brown talked about it. When she had her first TED talk. She said, You know, she had a vulnerability hangover for over a week where she couldn’t get out of bed. And she was like, Oh, my God, what is this. And I think that this is really an important conversation. Because as influencers, we are 100%, always, every single one of us is going to come up against this. So I’d love you to talk to that. And what we can do as influences to prepare ourselves, or to at least carry ourselves through that journey, so that we’re not self, you know, sabotaging and pulling back.
Ian Crawford (22:17):
It’s a really interesting point. Because if we’re going to do the work that we want to do, and really get change in the world, doing the positive things that we want to do, you have to push the boundaries. And one of my other mentors, I remember saying when I first started this is, if you’re not annoying people, you’re probably not doing your job. For years. Oh, really. And I think one of the first thing, if we’re coaches, if we’re facilitators, if we’re professional speakers, whatever the term you want to use, the first thing if we want to push the edge and get people to think differently outside their box, you have to build that rapport. And people have to see that the reason you’re pointing, you’re poking, and you’re pushing their beliefs and their ideas is for a good intent, not knowing. And a lot of trainers I’ve seen do that. And you may have noticed, I’ve just shifted my terminology there from facilitators to trainers, because trainers go out at nine o’clock, my say there’s much get this and they push through facilitators, it’s whatever the group needs. Yes. So those trainers they push through, rather than building up that time of going, Hey, I’m here for good intent, this is the reason we’re doing it. And being curious about where these people are coming from, rather than saying, Actually, no, that’s wrong, and I’m right. And that’s where you’re gonna get the conflict. I think that’s a really important one. The second part that always go to is what intent, what outcome Am I looking for. And so therefore, I do quite a bit of safety, leadership type stuff from a behavioral point of view. So conversations influence things. And a lot of people say you have to fill in this form before you start work, because that’s what we say. No wonder people are annoyed. And one of the things I say, well, for what reason do we fill out this, then we start talking about unconscious competence, for example. And people who’ve been working on mining sites for 1520 years doing the same job is they just going to go click, electrician must do work. And that’s great. But these, this paperwork, and this checklist that we get you to do takes you out of that for several minutes. And to allow you look at your work from a fresh pair of eyes. And so talking about that way suddenly elevates people’s ability to take it on because they see the reason they see the intent. And the intent from a let’s stay safe point of view is global. I want to go home. Of course, rather than go here is a form. It must be checked off before you start work. Thank you, and you walk away. And that’s the same as us as facilitators. You’ve got an idea you got a concept where you want to shift people go to the intent of it. So it’s, for example, it’s not about presenting skills. It’s about as getting your message strongly to the crowd, and that really shifts the conversation. And it also, the reason I’m smiling now is because once you go there, as a trainer, facilitator, Coach, your resources go that you can grab hold of if it’s about speaking skills. There’s my resources. If I talk about influencing, impacting people joining me on opens up into this massive amounts. So the reason access is a lot better. And once again, wrapped up in why are we doing this? It’s always for the positive intent, worthwhile intent. That’s helping you it’s helping the business. It’s helping the team.
Samantha Riley (25:41):
Yeah, yeah. It’s really, I think, getting out of that this is all about me, which is that that idea of the trainer is, you know, I’m here and I’ve got to deliver this message to then being from a coming from a place of service of what do I need for these other people. And I think that that’s really important, because to make that switch, is what is going to take you to the next level, not just the next level, but the next level, the next level, the next level, as a facilitator,
Ian Crawford (26:13):
one of the greatest things that I’ve learned if I fell into this, or got taught it, or someone told me, is, as a facilitator, it’s not about me, it’s never about me, I tell people, or they do some speaker training or facilitator training type work with is, as a facilitator who does this professionally. And I’m going to, I’m averaging about 60 hours of delivery a week at the moment. And the reason I can do that, and the reason I still love it, is if I could possibly just turn up and say nothing and get the results I’m looking for. I’m exactly where I need to be.
Samantha Riley (26:52):
Oh, my goodness, how cool is that. But that’s a real hard
Ian Crawford (26:55):
ego thing. Because I go way back to when I first started facilitating, and maybe 1920 21, professionally, facilitating your training, it was all about me, it was all about getting laughs It was all about pushing through this list of things I had to get done in a couple of hours, it was all about the laughter and all that stuff, which is all about me. And as I’ve got older and just kept doing this, and, and doing workshops, etc, that turned out really well and go really badly. Learning from that, I’ve got to a point where I can turn up and go, it’s not about me, it’s about the outcome. And that allows me to step out. And so therefore, if another person or room wants to take control the conversation, and now my job is to keep it on track, then so be it. So be it because we are there for an outcome, not whether I say a lot of words, I found one that allows me to walk away from workshops with a lot more energy. And number two, it allows the group to feel empowered that they’ve taken the journey by themselves, rather than this person at the front going, you must do this now. Quick over there. Breathe is that thing? That’s a great outcome for every one. Yeah, yeah, I just I just get so excited. When I see the group. At the end of that I got man, I really need to do that. Let’s go off and do this. And, and knowing that I just pressed a button and point them in a direction. And then they ran with it themselves. And they did the arguments and manage the conflict and, and things like that. And I think my role is there to keep people safe. Yeah, it can get a bit wieldy sometimes, but apart from that, knock yourself out, as long as we get to where we need to get. I don’t care who drives it.
Samantha Riley (28:45):
Yeah, love that so much. Now, I want to talk about the preparation to be able to go in and do that. Because you’re not just walking in there and going cool, guys, just I’m gonna stand here and do nothing and go for that. So what’s the preparation that we need to do? I know that you talk about a lot of tools. And I’d love to know, does you know, does that work into the preparation? Yeah.
Ian Crawford (29:13):
I think the first preparation to be able to feel comfortable with the things we’re talking about is just do it for 1000s of hours. So that’s the start off yeah, there’s
Samantha Riley (29:20):
no shortcut, right? Oh, there
Ian Crawford (29:22):
really isn’t people know how to become a good presenter. Go do it.
Samantha Riley (29:25):
Yeah, yeah. And there’s not another workshop like I’m all for training. Yeah, I do a lot of training. But at the same time, take that training and just get out and do it.
Ian Crawford (29:35):
Ah, you can’t become a better speaker unless you speak Yeah. And do it over and over and over and over again to weld up really poorly. And it is going to be done poorly at some stage but celebrate that means it happens oh boy boy, because if you pushing the edge it’s gonna go badly sometimes from move on, reducing the badly happening. Also the preparation stuff is we talked about understanding itself. also holding on to the intent of the workshop, the conversation of speech. But also I think about that respect to people in the room. And there’s a number of tools and, and this the tooling I mentioned, it’s necessarily deep diving into them and understanding them and whether they’re valid and all that stuff. These tools give me a framework to work with. And my favorite is disc extended disc is what I use. And the reason is that from a speed point of view is it’s got the toolkit for teams, task orientation, people orientation, introverted details, being pictured extrovert. Now, if I simply say that I don’t do any more detail, if I then go into a presentation, and whether it’s a keynote through to one on one and everything in between, I’m going to run those two ends, those continues all day. I’m going to come up with some task orientation research shows, look at this graph, look at these numbers, show us this. And then I run to people. Now when we look at these numbers, here’s what that means to people. And then I’m gonna run to the details, introvert, detail detail, or Hey, turn to the person next to you and have a conversation about this. Before we have a conversation in the big group, because I get better responses and the extrovert. It’s about managing them shutting them up, and also passing
Samantha Riley (31:20):
the Tim Tams around and just focus.
Ian Crawford (31:23):
Well know this, it’s the asking if you want the tin cans that annoys me. When we sit down, sit down the World Health team team, if you don’t know, go find out
Samantha Riley (31:37):
I was gonna say go look it up. greatest export out of Australia to date.
Ian Crawford (31:45):
It’s not Hugh Jackman. It’s Tim James. And do you have any varieties are now I sent a gift to a group that worked really hard? Lots of profit group the other day, a packet of every variety of 10. Pam, or no way? Yeah, they turned out to work. There was a stack, I think it was like 12 of them now really? Yeah. And I put in a boat,
Samantha Riley (32:02):
I can’t believe that that story just came in with that conversation.
Ian Crawford (32:09):
Surprised that we people as well. So yeah, I run that continuum, all the time. And it. The reason I do that is one because I know at some stage, I’m going to directly hit someone’s preference. And it’s BDI MBTI, print, human design, all those provide us a framework to go in, get out of our default setting. And then, you know, have a framework to run to extremes of the room. And, and again, I’ve had to do that, because I’ve worked with a lot of geologists, and a lot of engineers, and I worked with a very special group of people. I mean, special because there was a pretty secretive job they do, but they were computer experts. They were nerds. They were Dr. Sean Cooper. And you can’t get any further away from my default settings than that. And I swear to God, yeah. And even with all the experience that I’ve had, I remember looking at him just going, Oh, this is going to be bad feedback. Nope, absolutely not completely opposite go. Where did that come from? Wow, I just didn’t get the response that I need is my default setting, very quiet. Very technical, very detailed. So no feedback as a big group turning into small groups, you can’t shut them up. But it’s feeling comfortable and letting go of their control to allow those things to happen. And also to speak a language that is not natural to you. And so if you look at my my preferences, I’m quite introverted. And all the speakers are and, but when I’m speaking, it has to be more extroverted. Because that’s what I believe is the right thing to do. That’s how can drive the energy in the room. But there’s going to be times when I’ll drop my voice right down really quietly, and I’ll sit down, and I won’t move around. And I look people in the eye and I’ll just speak like this, then that connects with nonmetric, the extroverts where if that is on the continuum type thing. So in regards to my preparation, I’m constantly looking intent, I’m constantly looking at running to either those cuts corners or whatever preference that you want that use today, I’m working with senior leaders, and I have to call them out on some really, I’m choosing my words carefully. Yeah. Let’s go with average behaviors. Yeah, average business behaviors that are putting them at risk. And the business risk, they’re not gonna like this. I’m preparing myself to get beat up. Alright, because the brain is gonna turn on me at some stage because they’re going to form a gang and come after me. And one of the things I probably didn’t mention before that’s important is if they do get angry at you, in a workshop like that, they’re not angry at you. Really incorrect, but they’re angry at what you say and what buttons you’ve put first and I think that keeps me non defensive. Because it isn’t about me. It’s about the conversations we’re having. And that is easy to say. But that’s a big difference in in your mind. And because at any my workshops if I start to get angry, frustrated, that’s me. Yeah, I’ve taken up for some reason. And I work in the area of leadership and communication and influence that could possibly do that. Yeah. And people, child abuse and all that stuff. Oh, my goodness, that Yeah. That’s full on. Yep. And, and I think the response there could be slightly different, but I don’t and so therefore, I can’t say the same thing. I it’s not about you. It’s not about you. It’s not about you. It’s about them. Yeah. That’s so many resources, jump up, to allow me to respond to that as well.
Samantha Riley (35:51):
Yeah. I love that you talked about those tools, because I hear often, they’re, you know, there are people out there that say I don’t like those tools, because it puts people in a box. And I actually do understand what they’re saying, from their perspective of, we don’t want to put people in a box. But if we can flip that and understand that all it’s doing is helping us understand that there are different way different learning styles, different ways that people see the world, when we can understand that it makes it so much easier. You know, when I had my first business, and we’re running a team of 35 disc was one of my saviors, because until then I, as we can all tell just from the way we’re speaking, I’m in a work situation, I’m extremely high D just about off the charts. Real people see that number, they just like before, I wouldn’t want to work. When I go in there, it’s like we’re doing this. And as we know, for people like that I had there was, you know, I can picture this person, she was a lovely girl. But she was a really high C. and We butted heads because I didn’t understand. And it wasn’t until my coach at the time took us through disc and help. And we did the disc profiles with all of my team. They’re all of a sudden, I understand. Oh, that’s why we’re butting heads. This is what she needs from me. And until then I didn’t understand that. In my head. I was just like, why does she not do anything? I tell. I love that. You’ve mentioned the tools. Yeah, because it makes it easier for us to understand how other people see the world.
Ian Crawford (37:33):
And I would not step into go anywhere close to it. If it was a box thing. Yeah. Because yeah, when you’re a D, but you can go to any Oh, you can be a saint, you can be an AI anytime you want. And expertise. You can’t do that and realize you’re a deep, and yeah, and I just love doing that. Because I just go, you know, sit around boardroom tables and these predominantly men I work with is they look across the table. And that’s why you’re such a jerk. That’s why you annoy the crap out of me. Yeah, it takes us on that personal level clunk down to it into your high salt sea. And then suddenly, it provides an opportunity go on. And you know, we want, if we get these D and C’s to work together, we can do incredible stuff. 100%
Samantha Riley (38:21):
Because every person that’s a high day needs someone they’re cleaning up their mess behind them. That’s I see.
Ian Crawford (38:30):
The worst thing is saying, if you’re a high D, let me introduce you to some of the people I work with.
Samantha Riley (38:36):
I can imagine
Ian Crawford (38:39):
you didn’t come across as a hide, it was definitely D in there until
Samantha Riley (38:41):
you put me in a boardroom. And
Ian Crawford (38:47):
Brian, I’m going hang on. I’m supposed to make them cry, not me.
Samantha Riley (38:52):
But the idea is that the understanding and you mentioned human design as well. And we use human design a lot. You know, I do know the disc profiles of my team, just this morning in two hours, I’m going to be taking them through their human design profiles, which is something I’ve never done with my team before because it helps all of us to help each other understand. And I love that. Ah, we’ve talked about so much we could talk about so much more.
Ian Crawford (39:20):
Oh, what the hell? Let me just cancel my workshop today. And
Samantha Riley (39:24):
I’m nerding out. I’m loving this conversation one time yet. Oh my goodness. Seen we both did a very, very late finish last night and we both had a 6am star. I don’t think that’s probably the best thing to do. So time
Ian Crawford (39:39):
how’s that?
Samantha Riley (39:40):
I think that’s definitely where we’re at. I’d love you to sort of tie this up or wrap this up. Like if we’re talking to coaches and consultants and we’re really we’ve dived deep into influence. What is the I guess? What do you want people to walk away from this episode today really thinking about and really reflecting on to be able to take that influence to the next level?
Ian Crawford (40:03):
Yeah, it’s a really great question again, and I will say it. This is our wrap up disk as well. Because when you teach this or any of those tools, people, it’s a big wave of new information. And I say to them, here’s what you need to do. I want you to become a world class expert at looking at the person that you’re dealing with, and noticing if the message doesn’t land. And as soon as it’s not land landing, I want you to go back and go, How am I delivering? How can I deliver it differently, and then start using the frameworks that we’ve talked about. I think that’s really important because we go in and go, oh, this person today, I need to be here and start structuring really strongly to start off with, he gets so confusing, and I’m looking at the wrong things. Here’s your trigger point. Become a world class expert at identifying when the message doesn’t land. So good. And when it doesn’t land, then flex message doesn’t change. Remember, flex the delivery style. And the example I always use that’s opposite to that is tourists overseas. And I saw this when I was in Italy, I saw a particular nationality English speaking nationality walk up to a local and said, Can you tell me where the bathroom is? And the locals obviously turn around in Gambia BBB BBB in their toilets, Italian if you missed it. And the response was, then, can you tell me where the toilets are? Yet, I’m not sure you’re getting that. And that people do that all the time. If their communication style, the way they deliver doesn’t work, they just crank through the days, for example, crank up the assertiveness behind it, or SS will go get whatever it is, but they’ll just crank up the way they deliver it and push it out stronger. Did I gotta work? Stepping back and go. Well, that didn’t land. Let me try this. I tell people. Yeah. So if I’m approaching you to talk, I’m going like that hope that didn’t work. Step back, change an inch. Try again, change an inch. Try again. Because communication is about the result that you get, not how you deliver it. Yes, I think that’s a mistake that we do in a lot of communication programs. We talked about the process. That’s important. But communication is the result that I get, I don’t get the result that I’m wanting and I didn’t communicate it. Well, let’s look at a different way of communicating to get that result.
Samantha Riley (42:28):
As you’re talking about this, I’m thinking back to a workshop that I delivered and it would have been back in I’m thinking probably about 2011 You’re 15 Then yeah, I was how did you talk about influence and money.
Samantha Riley (42:51):
So as I was delivering a workshop to my private clients, and I, it was a 90 minute, we you know, we delivered 90 minute blocks, and I delivered it and I was just getting these really blank faces, and over the lunch break. And you were talking earlier about learning as well. Like what is the learning? So we went into the lunch break. And I remember shutting the door because I was just like, I can’t speak to anyone because I don’t know what just happened. And I need to decompress and, and figure out what was going on. And there was someone else in the room. And I’m like that just did not feel like it landed, I felt like it was really flat. We don’t want to be going to a lunch break flat. What happened, we sort of started to unpack it. And I went Look, I don’t know what happened. But I don’t think they got the concept. So we came back from lunch. And rather than go into the next piece, I just went Look, guys, I feel like we left. And you know, that session didn’t land. And I went tell me like, What are your questions, you know, what were you feeling? Now at that point, that was actually really hard for me because I was very new into facilitation in that space. And I wasn’t quite sure it was easy to like, sort of put it under the rug and just move on. Okay, we’re going to page 15 in the workbook and we’re moving on. And you know what happened? Everyone just it was like this weight lifted off everyone’s shoulders because obviously they’ve gone to lunch also thinking, oh my god, we didn’t get what we’re saying we’re feeling really stupid. Right? So this was a really interesting, so by me seeing what happened, I came back after lunch and went, I feel like it didn’t land. How can we fix this? And I kid you not in about six minutes. That whole 90 minutes was put back together everyone and thank you for you know, for retouching on that. And I wanted to tell that story. Because for everything you just said we have to pay attention to what’s happening. We need to not have our egos in the way to say okay, well, we didn’t deliver what they needed for what our audience needed. You know, what’s the learning and how can we get around to make sure that everyone gets what they need? And it’s, you know, it was a while ago back when I was 15. It’s something that I think about all the time and always It’s looking like what is that feedback that I’m getting? Which, by the way, I find a lot harder on Zoom.
Ian Crawford (45:05):
Yeah. Because people also don’t turn the cameras on. Yeah, I think also underlying, once again, is you being really honorable, and committed to the intent of the workshop of doing the right thing, getting the best out of the people getting the best return on investment, helping them move to the next stage, whatever it was, is, when we are committed to that those conversations become easier. Not easy, but easier. Yeah, rather than caught up in mass deliver this content by lunchtime and then move on. Yeah, yeah. The number of workshops I’d go to, and mainly private clients is that you walk in and you’ve structured, how the days gone, and just goes out the window and the first 30 seconds, and then you have to draw on all these brand new things to be able to get them to the place now that comes with experience and knowledge and things like that. But you have to be okay with that.
Samantha Riley (45:56):
Yeah, totally, totally. So much gold dropped in today’s episode. For people that want to stay connected with you, where can they find you. And also, I believe you’ve got a free resource,
Ian Crawford (46:08):
I have two things there. Go check me out my website at the moment, www dot i crawford.com. My Facebook page just got hit the beanie. So come and find me on Facebook and Instagram and all that stuff. But it’s a bit lacking at the moment. But just for your listeners, if they’d like to go and I’ll let you just put up the link if that’s okay. The link will be in the show notes. Definitely. Okay, I’ve got my book that I wrote many years ago, with a stack of other people that went to Amazon bestseller.
Samantha Riley (46:40):
Congratulations.
Ian Crawford (46:43):
Yeah. And the one I’ll give to you is in that link that I’ll give you as the audio, part of my the book that I put in and a workbook to assist you. And it goes along a lot of stuff that we talked about today. But if I get it from your people, I’ll also send them a PDF of the whole book.
Samantha Riley (47:02):
Awesome, right. So we’ll pop the links for all of that all of Ian’s socials and the link for the book and the audio and the workbook all in the show notes at influence by design podcast.com. And it’s been such a pleasure. I’m so glad that I feel like their four year wait was worth it. I feel like this is a fabulous conversation. Thanks for nerding out with me today. It’s been an absolute pleasure.
Ian Crawford (47:27):
Thanks, Sam. Really appreciate it.
Samantha Outro 36:28
Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Influence By Design podcast. If you want more head over to influencebydesignpodcast.com for the show notes and links to today’s gifts and sponsors. And if you’re looking to connect with other experts who are growing and scaling their business to join us in the coaches, thought leaders, and changemakers community on Facebook, the links are waiting for you over at influencebydesignpodcast.com
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