Do you spend enough time nurturing your relationships? If you don’t, you are missing a seemingly simple strategy which can drastically change the trajectory of your business.
In this episode of Influence By Design, Samantha chats with Esther Kiss, a public relations and media expert and the founder of Born to Influence. They dive deep into the world of publicity and the value of persistently and intentionally nurturing relationships.
Samantha and Esther share generous tips on how to ask for introductions and recommendations to grow your network. They remind us that when crafting pitches, we must emphasise angles tied to broader audiences and publications versus merely promoting ourselves. They also encourage sharing impactful and relevant stories that can evoke emotions in your audience — this establishes expertise while indirectly showcasing the business.
They also explore overlooked publicity opportunities, such as speaking in Facebook groups, partnering with payment processors serving your niche, and contributing bite-sized value to large sites like GoDaddy.
Essentially, Samantha and Esther stress the importance of constantly focusing on providing value, expressing gratitude, and nurturing connections. These organic relationship-building efforts fuel exponential publicity success over time. The key is to prioritise relationship-building over immediate commercial goals.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- How Esther discovered the value of building relationships (01:18)
- The biggest challenges coaches face in terms of securing publicity (03:18)
- How to efficiently handle publicity without directly pitching your business (07:05)
- How to get people to come into your world (09:09)
- Other publicity mediums you can utilise, aside from TV (12:38)
- Is it worth your while to speak to smaller audiences? (19:07)
- The added value of podcast interviews (22:55)
- Tips on how to ask for more introductions to maximise your podcast opportunities (25:25)
- Tips on how to make your interview content more impactful for more people (28:21)
- Tips on how to effectively extract stories for your audience (30:33)
- How to find out what personality you are and what your power approach to visibility should be to get the best results from your publicity (37:02)
- Esther’s parting words on how you can take steps toward maximising your publicity opportunities (38:25)
- “It’s very easy to just have a good time, have fun with the host, have a great conversation and then see no results, because you were not intentional about how you’re sharing your conversation.” – Esther Kiss
- “Anytime you have something that evokes in you an emotional reaction, just think about what happened and jot it down. And now you have a story … and a story, no matter what the context was, can be tied to any kind of outcome or business lesson that you want.” – Esther Kiss
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WHERE TO ESTHER KISS
- Website: https://borntoinfluence.com
- Facebook Personal Page: https://www.facebook.com/Esther.Kiss.Pinky
- Facebook Business Page: https://www.facebook.com/EstherKissOfficial
- Facebook Group: Successful Talented Entrepreneurs
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/estherkissofficial/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esther-kiss-650b301a/
ABOUT ESTHER KISS
Esther Kiss is a PR and media expert and the founder of Born to Influence, a boutique PR and marketing agency specialising in helping entrepreneurs and founders get more publicity, leads, and sales. Her clients became bestselling authors, sought-after speakers, and regularly featured guest experts on TV, radio, in business magazines, and top-tier podcasts.
CONNECT WITH SAMANTHA RILEY
Esther Kiss: Anytime you have something that evokes in you an emotional reaction, just think about what happened and jot it down. And now you have a story. And the really cool thing is that almost any, like, 99% of the time, a story, no matter what the context was, can be tied to any kind of outcome or business lesson that you want. Welcome to the influence by design podcast, us.
Samantha Riley: Welcome to today’s episode of Influence by Design. I’m your host, Samantha Riley, and I’m really looking forward to deep diving today into publicity. Now we are chatting with Esther Kiss, who you can hear back on episode eleven of the podcast. So quite a while ago, she’s so amazing. Her podcast is still sitting in the top ten most downloaded episodes of all time. So it’s great to have you back, Esther. And we’re going to be talking about publicity again, but diving even deeper. so welcome to the show.
Esther Kiss: Thank you so much, Sam. I’m so excited to be here.
Samantha Riley: Yeah, definitely. So you have been around for such a long time. I’ve known you for almost ten years now. You are one of the people that are out there in the publicity space, that you do it quite differently. You do what you do quite differently to a lot of other people that I see in the space. And I feel that your superpower is relationships and nurturing relationships, and I see it so differently. How did you discover how to build relationships so deeply? Is it something that just came naturally to you, or is it something that you learned along the way?
Esther Kiss: I think it’s, partly because of my curiosity, because I always want to know about other people. And so I ask a lot of questions and that leads to naturally building relationships. And generally I tend to be helpful as well. But I will say part of it, I think, is also because I’ve moved around so much. So I lived in six other countries before I moved to the US. And so there was always a lot of adjustment and new people and building those relationships. So it kind of became a habit. And what really topped it off is when I read a book maybe in eight or nine a long time ago by Keith Farazzi called never eat alone. And that book was all about networking before there was social media or I guess technically it existed but it wasn’t like it is today. And he talked about building relationships and how you can get ahead by having the right relationships. And I remember an example that he shared in the book that he would have his BlackBerry and he would sit in the back of the car, he would have a driver and then 5000 contacts in his BlackBerry and he’s reaching out using that drive time. And I’m like, that’s my goal. I want to have 5000 contacts. And now with social media, 5000 doesn’t even seem like a big number at all. But really if you think about it, if it is meaningful relationships, it’s probably not going to be deep friendships, obviously with 5000 people, but as many as you can. If you can have at least a casual relationship where you can call them anytime, help them out, call them in for a favour, that really goes a long way.
Samantha Riley: What is the biggest problem that you see with coaches when they’re trying to secure publicity? Because I think that we talked a lot about last time about why you need publicity. I know that it’s more mainstream even than we talked last time. Most coaches understand that they need it to build their authority. But what is some of the problems that you see or the challenges with the way they kind of come at it or their perspective in publicity?
Esther Kiss: I mean how much time do we have? Most people are really well meaning. It just tends to be that they are writing always these pitches to get featured from their own perspective, not considering what the other party wants and that’s just not the right way to go. So first of all, assuming that you don’t have any relationships, okay, everybody has to start somewhere. So start asking for introductions. But let’s say you’re cold pitching, make sure that you’re cold pitching someone because you’re really right for that story. So if you’re using a service, for example like Harrow, like help a reporter out where you can get into your email inbox multiple times a day, relevant opportunities to get featured in the press, those are so competitive, sometimes you’re really good and we use it as well. But just realise that thousands and thousands of people are pitching for the exact same story and that’s why those journalists always put there that I need exactly this type of expert and this type of credentials and if that’s not you, then don’t bother pitching them because it’s just not going to land. Right. Other thing that with these kind of just in time press opportunities where the journalist is already working on a story and you’re submitting for it, you have to be really fast. So if, let’s say they have a deadline and they need to write five articles that day, which does happen with staff journalists, right. With people who are employed directly by magazines or newspapers, they’re on a deadline and so they’re looking for first, few responses that whoever fits what they’re looking for for that story, those will be the ones that they go with. So make sure that you’re submitting yourself in a timely manner and you give your contact information right at the beginning. So you should say that, hey, I saw your query about such and such story. I would love to contribute. This is my credibility. You will say a sentence or two about who you are and why you should qualify for this particular story. And then give them your phone number and your email because some of them will call you to get more contact or longer quotes, something like that. And then don’t just end it by saying that if you’re interested in interviewing me, let me know. Give them an actual quote, like a paragraph or two of, what they can take and put immediately in the article. And again, this is because of the time pressure that they are under. Right. So if they can take something that you’re providing on a silver platter and it’s ready to go, you’re so much more likely to get featured. And if they want more, they have your contact info, they can reach out.
Samantha Riley: I love that you said that. We use in Australia a lot. It is global but it’s very australian based, is source bottle, which is like Harrow. And if I see something that is a perfect fit, I will hit reply. The second that email hits my inbox and every piece of media that I’ve been featured in from that, it’s because I’ve sent it off and it’s gone within five minutes of that email hitting. And usually that reporter is back to me within five minutes as well. So within ten minutes of that email hitting, it’s done.
Esther Kiss: Exactly.
Samantha Riley: So it’s really important to understand. But then I would only reply if it’s a perfect fit otherwise.
Esther Kiss: Yeah.
Samantha Riley: So I really love that you said that. You mentioned a little bit that people think about pushing for their business. How do you balance as a business owner, especially as a coach, getting publicity, but without it being a direct correlation to your business? So what I mean is, hey, I’ve got this programme and I think you should talk about it because it’s amazing rather than I’ve got this story that fits this media pitch.
Esther Kiss: So stories are always a great way to lead. Because journalists are always interested in stories. That’s what they are there for, to share facts and to share stories. So if you can lead with a story that would be newsworthy, that’s interesting to a broader audience or to that particular publication’s audience, that’s always great. If you can also put it into a framework and this is where the how to advice comes in, then you’re actually kind of already pitching your programme without directly pitching. Because let’s say you have a unique framework, you have a triangle. Let’s just say that, that’s how you draw it out as you teach it in your signature programme or whatever the model looks like. You can explain that verbally and then you can even offer, for instance, if it’s tv, you can even offer the graphics. So you could say that I have this framework, or if you don’t have something like that, then you would come up with an acronym. So, for example, for one of my clients, for Akshay Nanavadi, he is an expert on fear and he wrote this book called Fearvana, which is all about how to use your fear rather than trying to overcome it, how to make sure that you’re actually using it to accomplish your goals. And he has a coaching programme on the back end and the whole thing. And so what we did for him is we came up with an acronym, fear. Fear. And so f stands for this, AE stands for this. And so that way you can explain it in a way that’s really easy for audiences to memorise and to remember. And now they want to read the book or now they want to learn more about what you have to offer.
Samantha Riley: Love that so much. What about being able to get people to come into your world? So with Akshay, who I’ve also interviewed on this show, and he’s fabulous. Such an amazing person. How do people get that crossover of getting people to move from where they are into their world? Maybe someone doesn’t have a book. What are some of the different ways that we can get people to join our list, to have a look at our website, maybe cheque us out on social media.
Esther Kiss: So it’s a really cool thing. It’s set up in two ways. One is psychological and the other part is very practical. So the psychological part is you got to come into this conversation, into this interview, understanding exactly what your ideal client struggles are and what’s the conversation that’s going on in their head. And you address those through the stories that you share or through the examples that you share in a way that they feel that you get them right. So we have to make sure that they feel understood, because that’s when they start to trust us. And then the next step is, which is the practical part is you offer additional content. Now, depending on what kind of media you are being interviewed on, this may be a direct pitch or a soft indirect pitch. So for example, if you are doing a podcast interview, 99% of the time they actually want you to pitch something, usually a free offer. Something that, a downloadable cheat sheet or a PDF or a free video course or whatever, that you might have a webinar, something like that, a quiz, whatever it may be. So you can pitch that right at the end where people, if they want to learn more, you’re giving them something that will actually help them for free. Now, if you’re being interviewed on tv or radio or in a magazine like Forbes or Inc. You can’t really do these kinds of pitches. The only exception would be if you happen to have a book. And even with that, generally they will link to your Amazon page, your Amazon author page, not a landing page with, ah, a webinar plus the book that doesn’t work. So with that, what you want to do is you seed additional content where you can go deeper in specific topics that you covered in the interview, on your social media platforms or on your website. So for example, let’s say, you asked me a specific question on how to do something, and I would say it’s actually quite a big topic. Let me give you the key highlights, the top three takeaways, and then for those who want to learn more, I have a whole article on my blog. This is the title. You can look it up, right? And this way you’re softly pitching. And you would do that at least once or twice during the interview if it’s a long form interview, like 20 minutes to an hour, because that way you are giving people additional options. And it’s not that they are hearing for the first time that they should go cheque you out at the very end. And also, realistically, some people will drop off at the very end when it gets a little bit commercially. And so some people will not actually hear anything about your website to make sure that you’re feeding it during the interview without being too salesy like, I’m not going to say, I might say that, hey, I have a really great Facebook group. This is what it’s called. And then you might be able to do subtle pitches like that throughout the.
Samantha Riley: Yeah, love that. Now I think when most people think publicity generally, they tend to think tv first, which I think is funny because most of us don’t even watch normal commercial tv anymore because we’re too busy bingeing on Netflix, where there’s no ads, and on that, tv isn’t as popular as it was. What else falls under that publicity banner? Because tv is such a, I feel, but I could be wrong, such a small part of it. What else would you put under that publicity banner that maybe some people haven’t even thought of?
Esther Kiss: The publicity or public relations, by definition, is the relationship that you, as an entity, as a company, or as a personal brand, maintain with the public, with your audience. So, if you want to narrow it down to how specifically this applies to your specific businesses, how can I present myself in a way that people start liking, knowing, and trusting me? Right. And so that applies to anywhere where people are. So that would then mean that we are including in the world, and I definitely do. In the world of publicity, we include traditional media. So tv, radio, newspapers and magazines, online media, such as podcasts, YouTube shows, Facebook live shows, LinkedIn live shows, private Facebook groups, like all those different things that are very underrated. People are not really thinking of them as media, but it really is because you’re connecting with your target audience. If you’re speaking on stage, that’s also something where you’re being put in front of your direct target audience. So that’s a really good one that I would consider something that falls into the publicity category because you’re building your personal brand. But the really underrated ones are the ones that are very easy to get. They are low competition, but just nobody’s thinking about them. Like Facebook groups that we were talking about a little earlier. Right. So I just did a, presentation for a Facebook group a couple of days ago that has 4000 people, and it doesn’t sound so much when you compare it to people who have tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of followers on social or on their podcast audiences. But if you think about it, if you had to fill an event with 4000 people, could you do it? It’s a little bit of work. So if it’s very targeted, if it’s exactly your perfect target market, Facebook groups, LinkedIn groups, if you’re on discord, that might be a good way to explore, to discord communities where you can connect with the host or with the owner of that group and say, hey, I have some knowledge on this topic, and I feel it would be very valuable for your community. I would love to contribute. What do you think? And then you either work out a direct presentation, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a webinar, it could be going live in that group or something really low key, but still it’s putting you in front of your perfect target audience. There are a bunch of other ones, let me give you a couple more because I just love them so much. Nobody thinks, I do teach this in detail in my online course, but one of the things that for example, nobody thinks about is payment providers. So most coaches and consultants are, working with stripe or PayPal to process their payments, right? So I don’t know if they do it. But Amex, for example, American Express, the credit card company, does have content marketing. They have a podcast, they have a newsletter where you can pitch yourself and you are going in front of entrepreneurs. Obviously people who are using Amex, services to be able to process Amex cards, or the merchant provider that I use, their name is directpay. And so they specialise in working with coaches, consultants, like people who are in the knowledge industry. And so even when you call them on the phone and let’s say you have a tech support question about your payment stuff, you’re on hold and you hear this promotion for somebody else’s coaching programme and they do send out emails regularly, so it would be crazy not to call them up and say, hey, can you promote my programme too? Especially if you’ve been a client with know, so if you have something other than stripe or PayPal, I would look, at that to see if they can promote you. Another one is Godaddy as well. So GoDaddy is the domain registrar that sells domains. Well, who buys domains generally? It’s entrepreneurs.
Samantha Riley: Every entrepreneur usually has a library of domains.
Esther Kiss: Exactly. So if that’s your target audience, GoDaddy actually has over 20 million customers and they do great content marketing. And I see sometimes that they’re putting out calls for requests for content and they generally tend to be really easy ones too. Like give me the mindset around something. It’s like literally it’s going to take you five minutes to write up something. You can get featured on a huge website with a giant customer base. So it would be really silly not to do it.
Samantha Riley: You talked then a lot about numbers and I think that this is a really interesting conversation because I’ll have people say, what’s your audience size or what’s your reach, or how many downloads you get? And I was listening to, I think it was a Pat Flyn episode, I’m not 100% sure, but a while ago, and he was talking about, if you only have 50 downloads on your podcast a week, you think, oh, my goodness, this is a waste of time. But he said, imagine now that you were in a room of 50 people speaking, would you do that? And for most of us, he’d be like, yeah, I would do that. And it was really interesting because I saw on TikTok last night a clip of a young man. I guess he looked like, I don’t really know how old he was, but looks like maybe like late teenage years, maybe 18 or 19. And he was online and he heard his mum come in, and his mum’s like, where are you? He’s like, mum, come in. I’m online. And he’s like, I’ve got six twitch followers online with me. Say hello to my followers. And his mom’s like, oh, hi. And they’re having this conversation. And it was actually really beautiful to watch this interaction between this young man and his mum. It’s gone viral. He’s got like 300 and something thousand TikTok followers, twitch followers. He’s gone viral on all these other platforms now because of that, because he was so excited, that he had six people that he was speaking to. And I feel like it’s such a huge part of what people miss of let’s provide value to everyone. I mean, obviously, we’re not going to all day, every day, only put ourselves in positions where we’re only speaking to six people at a time. But I think that there is still so much value in giving value. What’s your take on that? And at, what point do you suggest that we don’t speak to smaller audiences?
Esther Kiss: Well, that’s a really interesting one, because when I invited, Gary Vaynerchuk to be a guest on my podcast ten years ago, I invited him before we had a website, before we launched a podcast with literally nothing to show for it. But I knew that he had this book, jab, jab, jab, right hook that he was promoting. And so I invited him to be on the show, and he said yes. And at that time, he was already a multiple New York Times bestselling author, and he committed to doing any and every single opportunity that he could do as far as interviews for an entire year. So I feel like there’s a lot to learn from that, from that humbleness, right? And I know that a lot of people don’t like the two words together in one sentence, Gary and humbleness. But really taking that, that, I will do it. I will do it, because it’s still more exposure than I could have reached otherwise if I had not done that interview. Now with this, of course, there are some exceptions. So, you know, when, usually when clients come to us for done for you services, they generally tend to be people who are in the multiple millions in terms of revenue. And sometimes that’s one of their first questions, like, what’s the reach of the podcast that you can get me on? And I, always explain to them, look, we don’t get you on the baby shows. I really don’t want somebody who just have two listeners that’s not a good use of someone’s time, who really is at a much higher level, and they have just a lot of leverage already. Right. So what we want to do with those, when you’re at that point is you want to make sure that you’re pitching yourself for mid sized shows and big shows. And the reason for that is that if you only wanted to do big, like, let’s say, entrepreneurs on fire, right? A million dollars a month, very good. But if I only waited for shows like that and Joe Rogan, I would have maybe like one or two hits a year. It’s not going to take me anywhere because it’s not going to have enough repetition in front of my existing audience. So if you have mid size shows and mid size, I mean, anything, the average podcast gets 200 downloads per month, right, per episode. So that would be the bare minimum, right, that we want that at least don’t be below average, at least be average, but usually more than that. And with our relationships, we tend to go for more. So at least a few thousand followers on social or on their email list, or in downloads or whatever measures that they have for their reach. But we want to make sure that you have that constant repetition. Another example that comes to mind is a really successful campaign that we did for Ryan Lebeck. For his first book, ask. When he was completely unknown in the online space, he was known as an expert for survey funnels, but not known as far as a marketer, right? Like in front of people would buy, because this was his first foray into selling courses. And so we booked him on 80 shows, 80 over, the course of eleven. So if you were to divide that, that would be about eight shows, roughly a month, let’s say. So let’s say two a week. That’s a good cadence for anybody starting out to follow, right, that you want to do, let’s say two shows per week, that you’re consistently doing it. Of course, when you’re first starting out, you will pitch yourself to one show, and they say, I’ll interview you next week, and the other one will say that I’ll interview you next month or three months from now. So you want to make sure that you constantly have that right. And so once it starts rolling, you always have something to share with your audience. And this is where the really cool parts comes in, because not only you are reaching brand new audiences, but also you have to spend that much less time on creating content, because now you have your content created for you, and then you have an hour long interview that you can just snip up into small little snippets, and you have a week, at least a week’s worth of Instagram reels and, little things that you can share.
Samantha Riley: Totally. I think that a lot of people underestimate how much content you can get from a podcast interview. And this is why I like podcasting, because there’s no other platform where you have the chance to speak with someone for an hour, hear someone’s voice from a perspective of the audience. They get to know you very well. They get to hear how bad your jokes are or how quirky you are or the way that you speak. So they feel like they get to know you very well. But the amount of content is crazy. And I would love to add a little tip onto there as well. I like to reach out to shows that I’ve been on and ask them for the raw video of our interview if they haven’t created content. And generally my team will cut up five, six, seven to ten reels and actually send them back to the host as well. Because then not only am I creating content for myself, but I’m also providing value to the host and thanking them for having me on the show. It not only has obviously got content that they’re pushing out extra to their audience, but it keeps you top of mind. And I feel that if we loop back to our original conversation and what I originally started with, relationships and building relationships is going to get you far.
Esther Kiss: Exactly. This is such a good point that a lot of people, when they hear something like that, they’re like, oh, I want to do that, but I don’t know how to edit video, for example. Right. So if you don’t have a team yet, there are now a lot of AI tools that actually do a really good job. So I’m not saying that it’s going to be perfect immediately, but if you at least have the bulk of the work done that you don’t have to actually watch the whole thing and then figure out what parts are good for reels. It will do that for you. It does at least a rough cut and then you just tweak it a little bit. And there are plenty of online tutorials that will teach you how to do this with free tools. I mean, it’s a really missed opportunity.
Samantha Riley: If you don’t do it. How important do you feel it is as someone that’s potentially guesting on a podcast and going to get publicity opportunities to, I guess, ask for more introductions off the back of what you’re doing, is that a way that you would encourage coaches to work? Or is it more on the cold pitched side?
Esther Kiss: Always ask for introductions. This is one of my favourite things.
Samantha Riley: I didn’t even know that.
Esther Kiss: And literally Jesus as well. So what I like to do is once your interview is done and they stop the recording, usually there is still a little bit of time to talk with that person on Zoom or wherever you are with them. right. And just ask this magic question, how do you feel? And then you don’t say anything else, just say, how do you feel? And they’re going to relax so much. You will see it on their body language that, oh, this was so good. Thank you so much for doing this. I really enjoyed it. Our audience will get a lot of value. First of all, they will have you up, which is nice, but also they will get into this, whole gratitude thing of emotion, right, where they actually want to help you out. And you haven’t even asked for anything at this point, right. And so then you would just have a little bit of a conversation, get a sense of, how does their podcast fit in with their overall business strategy? What are they looking for? How can you help them? And if you can help them offer something, I can make this introduction for you, or I can connect you with such and such resource. I saw an article about that. Whatever it may be that you would have as a conversation with somebody at a networking event, right? Just a normal, helpful conversation. And it’s inevitable that they’re going to ask better, hey, how can I help you? Right? Or if they don’t, then just be bold. Hey, you know what, actually, could I also ask you a favour? I enjoyed this show so much. I think it was really fun. And I’m looking to do more podcasts and I was wondering, do you have any recommendations for what other shows I should be on? And they will host probably name like two or three shows at least, because they all listen to each other’s shows and they know who’s who. And once you got those, jot down those titles. And I said, do you know the host? And if they do, then ask for those introductions. Wouldn’t mind connecting me with them, and you will have a warm introduction where you don’t even have to pitch. And this way, you’re literally tripling your podcast opportunities with every single one that you do, which means that over time, you’re growing exponentially without having to pitch. And if they happen to not know or not well enough where they’re comfortable with an introduction, that’s even not a problem. Just the fact that they recommended to be on that particular show now gives you the ammunition. You can reach out to that show host and say that, hey, I heard about you from so and so. I just did an interview on their podcast. We had so much fun, and they recommended that I reach out to you because your audience would benefit from such and such topic, and they’re super easy.
Samantha Riley: Oh, my goodness, I love this so much. Now, I’ve heard you talk about different types, I guess, of people, the way that they are creating content, like people’s superpower, and where they can focus. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Esther Kiss: Huh? It really comes down to the fact, especially with podcasts, but even with other media outlets, is that often the person who is interviewing you is not a professional journalist. So they tend to ask the questions, especially podcasters, based on how their personality is, right. So they’ll usually either ask you a story based question that tell me exactly how did you come to do what you do? Like what’s your story? Or they will ask you, how do you do this? How do you get this result? Tell me the nitty gritty. I want to know exactly. And take notes, right? So those are the two avenues that they tend to go down on. And so your job as a guest is to satisfy both, because you want to respond not just to the host, but you’re responding to the entire audience. And your audience is comprised of all types of people who learn in different ways. So, for example, if they ask you a story based question, you would answer with a story that, this is how I learned to do this, or this is what we did with my client. And you share a case study, for example, you share a story, but then you want to tie it into a really pretty bow with actionable takeaways. And so you say, okay, you finish a story. And what I want people to remember is these three things. Point number one. Point number three. Point number three. And vice versa. If they ask you a how to question, you give them the how to first, and then you spin it into a story. You’re going to say that, you know what? This actually reminds me of something that we just did with a client last week, or this is how I actually learned it myself. Like earlier, I gave you guys examples of when I shared some client stories, or about Gary Vaynerchuk when I interviewed him on the show. It naturally comes up in the conversation with your how to. You’re blending your stories. M.
Samantha Riley: Can you give some tips to people that are, maybe newer in the publicity space on how to extract those stories? Because there’s actually a strategy around this, right. It’s not just, oh, I’ll just pick any story. Is there any way that you can help people to kind of get into the feel of how to do this?
Esther Kiss: Yeah. So I would say there is a strategy, but it’s also something that’s based on emotions. Right? So stories move people through emotions. And so what we were talking about in the very beginning is knowing where your ideal client is at. What’s the conversation in their head? What are their fears? What are their desires? You need to know that and work on that before you start pitching yourself to really know what your intentional media message is. What’s your content? Right. Because it’s very easy to just have a good time, have fun with the host, have a great conversation, and then see no results because you were not intentional about how you are sharing your conversation. And so how to come up with the stories. Well, first of all, your origin story is, something that you know, because that’s something that happens to you. So if you’re not quite sure how to present it, a really good way to think about it is what are some of the things that I have done? What were the obstacles that I overcame? Why? What inspired me to do this? Like, all the positive and negative motivators of you actually coming to do what you do, and then what were the adventures on the way? What were the bumps in the road? Right. What were the lessons learned? So that will give you a really good starting point for your own origin story that you would build your power authority story from. Right. And then there is a whole slew of other stories that you can use, whether it’s from past, actual events that happened to you as a kid or in high school or in your business career or when you lost the weight, let’s say, if you’re a weight loss coach, whatever it may be, but then also moving forward, and I struggle with this so much, I have to tell you, even though I do publicity. But in the beginning, it was extremely hard because I just feel like I go so fast and I move on really quickly. I learn the lessons and then I apply them in the next thing that I’m doing, that I don’t think about it in terms of stories. And so a mentor taught me this, that anytime you have something that evokes in you an emotional reaction, just think about what happened and jot it down. And now you have a story. And the really cool thing is that almost any, like 99% of the time a story, no matter what the context was, can be tied to any kind of outcome or business lesson that you want. So it doesn’t have to be that this thing happened and this is what I learned. And then that’s the only way I can ever share that story. I can bring it into five different outcomes if I want. Right. So I can talk about, for instance, with mine, I can talk about relationships. I can talk about. This is how you use publicity strategically. there’s just a bunch of things that I know are key talking points of mine. So I would look at what are those key talking points and how can I pick up a thread that it connects with in that particular story?
Samantha Riley: I love that you shared it that way. I actually created a challenge for myself years ago when I also discovered that I struggled to tell stories on the spot. So what I did was I took random photos on my phone when I was out walking every day for 30 days, and I created a story out of it. I remember there was one day I just took a picture of the sidewalk, and then I created a story and brought a business lesson into it. And I did it for every day, for 30 days. And it helped me to understand how to bring those stories in. And it’s something that I encourage my clients to do and encourage everyone on this podcast to do, because once you get into the flow of it, you realise how easy it is. But it may be not so easy at the beginning.
Esther Kiss: Yeah. So I think it’s just important to have this framework that, you know that if it evoked an emotion in you, it will likely have the same effect in others as well, as long as you tell it well. Right? and so you just want to find a connection point between what happened there and what kind of character trait you noticed, maybe in someone inside that story, or the outcome that provides the lesson and how that can tie into what you want to teach as a coach. So let me give you an example. Just because we were talking about annex with the underrated platforms. Actually, I have a story about annex that literally just happened two days ago. so my credit card expires at the end of January. We are recording this on the 31st and on the 20 eigth. I noticed that I still don’t have my new card. And they promised me that they would send it in the mail before the old one expires. But I didn’t get it. So I called them and they said that, well, we actually sent it to you. You should have received it by mid December. It was there in your mailbox. And I’m like, no, it wasn’t. I know, I checked, but they didn’t have a tracking number because it was just sent by regular mail. So they were kind enough to send it through UPS, which was the next day I had to pay $10. But, okay, next day it was here by UPS. So a new card replaced. This is something where I could take this story and talk about how great companies take care of their customers. Right. They’re not going to make you wait another two weeks. And without a tracking number like some big banks would like the awful treatment that sometimes customers get. Or I could make any other story about the speediness. I could continue with saying that, well, you know what actually happened with the UPS driver because this is also really true, Ups, that the driver cannot find the address. And I’m like, I live in a house. It’s not a complicated place to find out. Apartment building. But even funnier is that the address actually was my mailing address, which was in a UPS store. And they could not find their own store. Oh, my know, if I were to share it, that part, and I could share about the human incompetence. And then I go to the link and the link doesn’t work, the whole thing. So there are just things that are happening in your everyday life that even may be a little bit frustrating, but you can make them funny or you can take it as it is, as serious and then draw attention to something that’s important.
Samantha Riley: Love m that now, you talked before about, we covered very quickly on the different types of people, the storytellers or the people that talk a lot about strategy. Now, I’m sure that there’s benefits and also challenges for each of those people when we’re talking to an audience that includes all people. Can you share a little bit about how people can find out about sort of what they are and how that knowing that can help them in their publicity journey?
Esther Kiss: Yeah. So of course, knowing yourself is the first thing and you can also ask your friends. But if you want to take the shortcut, I do have a quiz that you can take. It’s a very fun online quiz that you can take in literally 60 seconds. Just respond to a few questions and it will tell you the outcome of, what kind of personality are you and how this will inform what’s your power approach to visibility. So exactly what are the kind of things, kinds of things that you should do to get the best results from your publicity?
Samantha Riley: So, of course, we’ll put the note in, the note. We’ll put the link in the show notes so that you can just scroll right down and click through to that straight away and get a copy of that. I find that knowing this kind of information exactly like you say, does give you the shortcut and it shines a light into areas that we don’t necessarily know even exist and make you go, oh, I can just change that up and do it that way next time. So super helpful. Definitely suggest getting on top of that. Esther, if there was one thing that you wanted to leave the audience with today that in relation to everything we’ve spoken with, that can help them to take an action step and step into something new or getting their first publicity opportunity or whatever it is, what would.
Esther Kiss: It be to always focus on your relationships? Because it sounds like it’s not something very difficult to do and it’s not, but it’s also easy to overlook it. And if you can do just very simple things, like cheque in with people from time to time, ask them how they’re doing, hey, they haven’t seen you in a while. How have you been? What are you up to? That goes a really long way to stay top of mind. And not just with journalists and reporters, but with other coaches, with members of your masterminds, with people who you just know through your day to day life, make sure that you keep in touch to a reasonable degree. Like call them on their birthday, for example. Right. Or send them a card every once in a while. That goes a long way. And they will be so happy to do the same for you, first of all. But also, they will do a lot of things to help you out just because you stand out compared to everybody else who doesn’t do these simple things.
Samantha Riley: Can I just say, if you’re listening, just listen back to that because I cannot explain how important this is. I have people saying to me all the time, oh, my goodness, how do you get to interview these sort of people? Or are you connected with these people? And oh, it’s different for me. No, it’s not. I’ve been nurturing some of my relationships for 20 and 30 years and it doesn’t just happen. And I understand that we all have a first day, but it’s a constant thing. It’s like, well, for example, Esther, with you, we’ve known each other for nearly ten years and I just reached out a few weeks ago and say, hey, how are you going? Happy New Year. what’s your plans for this year? And by the way, do you have anyone that you can introduce me to to be on the show? And it’s just that little, hey, I’m here. But also, can you do me a favour? Kind of. It just. If you can do that, then it will change your business. It really will.
Esther Kiss: Absolutely. And it’s really interesting, if you read the book influence by Dr. Chialdini, how people like to stay consistent with themselves. And interestingly, if they have done you a favour, it’s not that they’re automatically expecting you to do a favour for them, which you shouldn’t do anyway, but they want to actually help you more. Absolutely. If you come back to them and say that, hey, thank you so much for that tip or that article that you gave me or the introduction that you made, this is the outcome that came of it. Thank you. They will be so happy. They can’t help it. But think more of how can they help you even more. And if you do the same thing for other people, it just grows exponentially.
Samantha Riley: Absolutely. Esther, thank you so much for coming on the show. Again, it’s been a pleasure to chat with you. And where can people find you on the socials?
Esther Kiss: Yeah. So on Facebook, I think is the best way to connect with me. I have a Facebook group called successful, talented entrepreneurs where you can just google that and find it there, or Instagram as well. My Instagram handle is Esther Kiss official.
Samantha Riley: And we will put, as always, all the links in the show notes. Thank you again, Esther. It’s been a pleasure.
Esther Kiss: Thank you.
Samantha Riley: Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Influence by Design podcast. If you want more, head over to influencebydesignpodcast.com for the show notes and links to today’s gifts and sponsors. And if you’re looking to connect with other experts who are growing and scaling their business too, join us in the coaches, thought leaders and changemakers community on Facebook. The links are waiting for you. [email protected].