If you’ve been a guest on podcasts and you didn’t get any leads, or secure any opportunities for your time, then you’re probably wondering why.
Jessica Rhodes, the founder of Interview Connections, sits down with Samantha to share her wealth of knowledge on the art of podcast guesting. In this conversation, Jessica unveils the secrets to maximising the impact of your podcast appearances.
At the heart of Jessica’s approach lies the understanding that podcasting is more about networking than broadcasting. She emphasises the importance of nurturing relationships with hosts, the value of the art of storytelling, and the upshot of providing clear calls-to-action to elevate your business to new heights.
In a world where visibility and connections are paramount, Jessica’s insights offer a fresh perspective on leveraging the power of podcasting.
IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- From door-to-door canvassing to founding Interview Connections (01:15)
- Striking the perfect balance between education and entertainment (05:18)
- The big mistake you might be making if you’re not getting leads from your interviews (07:22)
- The art of podcast networking (13:40)
- Nurturing host relationships: Actionable tips from Jessica and Sam (17:16)
QUOTES
“Noticing a gap and finding a solution is what entrepreneurship is all about.” – Samantha Riley
“Podcast by nature is “edutainment,.” It’s education – you’re providing information, and you’re there to entertain. If people are not feeling compelled and entertained by what you’re saying, they’re not going to listen. – Jessica Rhodes
“Focus on your relationship with the host, build rapport with them, provide value to them, make them look good. Do all of that because they will promote your episode more if you give a great interview. And you just never know where that relationship can go.” – Jessica Rhodes
“Business is built on relationships, it’s built on people actually knowing you and trusting you and understanding who you are and what you do.” – Jessica Rhodes
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ABOUT JESSICA RHODES
Jessica Rhodes founded Interview Connections, the world’s first and leading podcast booking agency in 2013, back when no other agencies like it existed. Since its founding, Interview Connections has booked over 30,000 podcast interviews for over 800 clients! Jessica is passionate about helping entrepreneurs who feel like the best-kept secret grow their business online through genuine, human-to-human connection. The podcast interviews Jessica and her team have booked have helped their clients generate millions of dollars in sales, sell thousands of books, and transform countless lives.
WHERE TO FIND JESSICA RHODES
- Website: https://interviewconnections.com/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/interviewconnections/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/@InterviewConnectionsPage
- Podcast Guesting Masterclass: interviewconnections.com/livemasterclass
CONNECT WITH SAMANTHA RILEY
Facebook: Samantha Riley
Instagram: @thesamriley
LinkedIn: Samantha Riley
Twitter: @thesamriley
TRANSCRIPTION
Samantha Riley
Welcome to today’s episode of Influence By Design. I’m your host, Samantha Riley, and very much looking forward to chatting with today’s guest, Jessica Rhodes, and we’re going to talk about all things podcasting. So, first up, welcome to the show, Jessica. It’s great to have you here.
Jessica Rhodes 0:38
I am so happy to be here. Thank you so much.
Samantha Riley 0:41
Now, you’ve been in the podcasting space for quite a while, I would love for you to share what got you into this space because I am an avid podcaster. But at the same time, it also took me a little while to get into it. Because I was one of those people that was a little bit nervous to put myself out there. I used to hate the sound of my voice, blah, blah, blah. But once you’re in the world of podcasting, it’s very, it’s very addictive. But I’d love to know what your story was, how you got into podcasting?
Jessica Rhodes 1:15
Yeah, I think we’ve both been around for quite a while because I think you were just mentioning to me that you’ve been podcasting since we were using Skype. And I also relate to that. When I first started, it’s funny because it doesn’t feel like it’s been that long. But then when I think about when I first started the business, and when I first started podcasting, the technology was very different, the practices were very different. So it has evolved quite a bit. So I got into the whole podcast world by way of my dad. So before I started Interview Connections, I was working for a nonprofit organisation running a door-to-door field canvass. So like literally in a totally separate world, environment, industry. And when I became pregnant with my first child, I wanted to be home with him. So my dad, who is a business coach and has had an online business for 20 years or so, said, You can be a virtual assistant, and I’ll be your first client. And so that is how I first got into the world of working online. And my dad had started his podcast in 2012, recording on, actually my dad was recording his podcast on Instant Teleseminar, if you remember.
Samantha Riley 2:40
Yes, I do. Oh my goodness.
Jessica Rhodes 2:43
So the sound quality was not very good. But he was all about the content, and then networking with guests, which I know we’re going to talk about today. So I got started by booking my dad as a guest on other people’s podcasts and then inviting, oftentimes, we would invite the host to be a guest on his podcast. So there was a lot of, you know, pod swaps, as a lot of people like to call them, cross promotion, collaboration. And when I was pitching him as a guest and making those connections, the host had never been pitched before, which is unheard of now. You have a podcast, you’re getting pitched multiple times per day. But when I was pitching, I kid you not, it was like the wild wild west. People were like, Who are you? I have never been pitched before. I’m like, Oh, I don’t know. I’m just booking my dad on podcast. And so that’s kind of what sparked this idea, the curiosity and the interest and getting support with podcast booking was what led me to start Interview Connections, which was the world’s first ever booking agency for entrepreneurs and podcasters.
Samantha Riley 3:52
I love that, that’s so good. People that see a gap and find a solution is what entrepreneurship is all about. And that story is just the epitome of what we do as entrepreneurs. Now I’d love to start off. Actually, let me phrase this a bit different. I’ve got a system that I call front of stage and backstage and this is from my days as a dance studio owner. There’s the, you know, what’s happening on the stage, everything that the audience can see. And then for that to happen, there’s a whole heap of stuff that’s happening behind the scenes in the backstage area that the audience never never sees. And I feel that podcasting is exactly, exactly the same. And as guests, most people do it because they want the reach to the audience. They want to be in that front stage position where they’re being interviewed to grow their audience. What can you speak to in regards to some tips on the front stage side? Because I, as a host, see a lot of gaps from people where they don’t have a way to link their interview to stay connected, to generate leads, to get people on their email list, all of those sorts of things. I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of different ways to do this.
Jessica Rhodes 5:18
Oh, yeah. And this is, I love talking about this because, I love that metaphor, the front stage and the back of the stage, because that’s what makes podcasting and podcast guesting, such an amazing marketing strategy is it’s not just one thing that you get out of it. There’s not just one benefit, there’s a multitude of benefits. And when you’re on the podcast, and you’re on this stage, and you’re visible, and you’re speaking, there’s, I mean, there’s lots of tips that I have, but I want to start with really understanding who your target audience is, who do you want to be, you know, resonating with, and sharing stories that resonate with your ideal clients and your target audience. Because stories are what entertain people, they are what creates that emotional connection. And podcast by nature is “edutainment.” It’s education, you’re providing information, and you’re there to entertain. If people are not feeling compelled and entertained by what you’re saying, they’re not going to listen. So you have to have that balance of education, really valuable information that they can take action on. And also your personality, your energy, the stories that have people actually want to listen to this on their free time.
Samantha Riley 6:40
Totally. What about where we lead people to because this is such a forgotten strategy by so many people. It’s great to show up. It’s great to be the guest, it’s great to share those stories, that “edutainment.” I love that by the way. But if we show up and give an interview, and then walk away, it’s almost like at the end of the show, it’s just like, lights off, curtain down, and the show’s over. But there’s got to be some, you know, for us to get the greatest benefit, there’s got to be some sort of next step, next offer, what happens next?
Jessica Rhodes 7:22
Absolutely, and this is where a lot of podcast guests kind of miss the mark is they have no place to send people to. So the first thing is knowing what your goals are and what you want to get out of podcast guesting, because that’s like, you know your target audience, you’re sharing stories and information and actionable advice that’s relevant to that audience. And then where do they need to go next? What action can they take? And that will depend on what your goals are and what results you want to see. So if somebody has a podcast, like they’re being a guest on other podcasts, but they also have their own show, then oftentimes, I’ll advise them to, you know, plant a seed in the episode that, oh, I have actually an episode of my podcast all about this. And so that way, people are listening. And then they’re also opening up their podcast app to hit, you know, download on one of your episodes. So that’s a way to grow your audience. And then also, at the end of the podcast, when the host kind of gives you that opportunity to share where their audience can find you, give one clear call to action to send the listeners so they can connect with you. And this is so important, to keep it one thing, one clear call to action, because when you give five different places where people can find you like Instagram and LinkedIn and Facebook and website, people don’t know where to go, you know. A confused mind says no, so having that one clear place. And you know, if I could pull back, this is a very, it’s a meta conversation because we are talking about podcast guesting and we’re doing a podcast interview, you know, right before our interview started you kind of asked me where do you want to send people to, do you have a free offer or something? And just knowing that, you know, when the episode’s going live, it’s coming up. I have a free masterclass is, Oh, that would actually be perfect. Because if I don’t know when the episode is going live, I’ll send people to my website where they can book a call and learn more. But if I know it’s going to go live right before an event, then you know I’ll share that, so you want to be strategic and just talk with the host, you know, talk with them about you know, when is the show gonna go live? If you have a few different lead magnets, you could ask the host, I have several gifts, which one do you think your audience would find the most value in? Because they want their audience to get value from the podcast. So I always recommend talking with the host about what they think would be the best free offer if you have a few different in mind.
Samantha Riley 9:37
That’s a really great tip about asking when is the interview going live because some hosts might be three to six months out. The other thing when you’re, I’d like to add to that is it’s amazing how many times I’ve been interviewed on podcasts where the conversation has gone somewhere that I haven’t really expected it to go but I’m quite happy for it to go wherever. I’ll give you an example that I was booked on a show. And this was, I think back in 2015. And I was specifically asked to come and speak about Instagram. But the very first question he asked a question about entrepreneurship and the fact that I’d always been, you know, been in entrepreneurship for 30 years. And it took a very different route. And we ended up talking about fear and all sorts of things. So at the end of the interview, of course, I didn’t say, Oh, and by the way, I’ve got this free resource for Instagram, because we hadn’t even talked about Instagram. In my mind, I was like, what resource can I provide that relates directly to this conversation? So knowing when it is, but also being really mindful about what the topic is, and making sure that you match up those resources is, I think, key.
Jessica Rhodes 10:55
Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, you want the call to action, the lead magnet, the free offer to be relevant to what they just listened to. Because the whole goal is that if they liked your episode, and they got value from it, they want more. What more can you give them that is going to help them go deeper with the topic that you talked about?
Samantha Riley 11:16
From your perspective, because you’re dealing with podcast hosts and podcast guests every day, is there certain offers that you feel are better in the podcast medium than others?
Jessica Rhodes 11:32
So it actually just, it really depends on what your business is, what you’re selling, is it high ticket, low ticket, and who your audience is. So the one thing I will say in regards to it being the podcast medium is that when somebody hears you as a guest on a podcast, and they listened to you for 30 to 45 minutes, they are much warmer than a lead who heard you for 30 seconds. So from that regard, you can likely send them to a place in your funnel that’s further down the funnel than something that you would send to a really cold lead. So for example, you might not invite someone to a discovery call or strategy call with you, if they just sent you a DM on Instagram for the first time, you might need to nurture them and warm them up a little bit. But what we find a lot of the times with podcasts guesting when somebody hears you on a podcast, they’re ready to go right to a call, because they’re like, I just heard your whole story, I got a ton of value, you were interviewed by a host I trust, they go right to a call. So for business owners that are selling coaching, consulting, services, it’s a high ticket, multi $1,000 investment, oftentimes going, inviting them right to your website to book a call works really, really well. But if you’re selling a low ticket or courses or you have a really long sales cycle, it’s not likely that someone’s going to be ready to get on a call and maybe make a buying decision right away. A way for them to get on your email list so you can continue to nurture that relationship is ideal.
Samantha Riley 13:02
100% love that. Now, that’s a topic that a lot of people talk about. But something that I was excited to see come through when you and I decided to chat was that you are very aware of the networking that happens behind the podcast, because this is something that I talk about all the time. And I’ve not heard many people talk about this. So I was very excited. You specifically said to me, more networking than broadcasting. What do you mean by that?
Jessica Rhodes 13:40
Yeah. So when you are getting interviewed on podcast, the most important person that you are talking to is the host of the show. And this is overlooked by so many podcast guests, because people get into podcasting because they want visibility. They want people to know about them and their business. And they just kind of see the host as the person that’s going to get them visibility. The host is who you’re gaining visibility to first and foremost. And so this is especially important for entrepreneurs who are selling high ticket. Coaches, consultants, agency owners, service-based business owners, you need your prospective clients to trust you and to know you and to get to ask you questions in a very low-pressure scenario. And that is the host, the host is the person who’s actually talking with you. So I always recommend that you really focus on your relationship with the host, build rapport with them, provide value to them, make them look good. Do all of that because they will promote your episode more if you give a great interview. And you just never know where that relationship can go. We just have seen so many times where the host invites the guest to be a speaker at an in-person event or the host refers you to another host. One of our clients said that I always ask every host, do you know any other podcasters that would want to have me on their show? Like, it’s just, it’s something that they always ask, they’re able to triple the number of interviews that they’re getting, because they’re just in a habit of always asking. So that host has so much access for you. And there’s so many collaboration opportunities. You know, business is built on relationships, it’s built on people actually knowing you and trusting you and understanding who you are and what you do. So make the most of your relationship with that host, because they are the most important person in this strategy.
Samantha Riley 15:39
I’m so happy that I finally found someone else that really understands this, because one of the questions I get asked is, How do you get booked on so many summits as a speaker? It’s always through podcasting. And even if it wasn’t on that particular person’s show, it’s always been an introduction through a podcast host. Because people that host podcasts, generally use other strategies that are similar. Run summits, you know, have in-person events, anything that’s like that, because that’s generally the more extroverted person or the person that understands building audience. And I ran Profitable Coach Summit just recently. We had 30 speakers. And I think from memory, there was only one of those speakers that hadn’t been on my show. We’ve connected through the podcasting. And they’re people that we’ve gone on and done multiple collaborations with, because also, again, a podcast host is used to promotion, we’re used to production, all of the things behind the scenes, so it’s definitely worth really nurturing that relationship with the host. Is there any other tips that you can give for people that may be podcast guesting already? Apart from asking, you know, is there any other podcast host that I should know? Are there any other tips that you have, that maybe you give your clients about really nurturing those relationships, or how to take those relationships deeper?
Jessica Rhodes 17:16
Absolutely. So it starts the moment you get booked on the show, you know, the moment you get secured for that opportunity, start building the relationships. So connect with them on social media, follow them, connect with them on LinkedIn, do a post, I’m gonna give a bunch of just actionable pieces of advice that you can, you know, take any or all of them. But number one, connect with the host on social media, because first, you might connect via email to kind of just officially schedule, you might be talking with their, you know, assistant or their team or whatnot. Get connected with the actual host, start building some rapport and just conversation via direct message. Post that you’re actually going to be interviewed on the show. So you can say, I just secured it, you know, I just got booked for this podcast, I’m so excited. You can listen to their show here. I’ll post my interview when it goes live. So just start building some excitement there. You can actually do a cross collaboration. So you could do a joint Instagram Live or a Facebook Live. If you have a podcast, you can invite them onto your platform. So find a way that you can play together and not just be on their show, but what can you do to deepen that relationship? I call it the green room chat. I like how you call it backstage, similar. I call it the green room chat. So when you’re talking to the host before the interview actually starts being recorded, that is the green room. So there’s many different questions that you can ask the host. And so one, I interviewed my client about this, because I learn the most from my clients, I give advice and everything, and then they come back. I’m like, oh, that’s genius. I’m gonna keep coming to tell the people to do that. My client, Isaac Ho, he’s a sales coach. He always asked the host, why did you start your podcast? What comes out of that conversation is incredible. He learns all types of things. What motivated them to start their podcasts, and everyone has a different motivation, whether they, you know, they wanted to do something that was fun in their business, they wanted to connect, they wanted to hone their message. And just what comes out of that conversation has led to them saying, you know, I could actually really use your coaching. And so it’s not done in like, in a manipulative way, but he just genuinely knows that if I get to know this host at a deeper level by understanding what makes them tick, what their motivations are, we’ll have a better connection that will lead to a better interview. And then of course when you have deep connections with people that you’re more likely to work with them and vice versa. And then after the interview, of course, promote it. You know, I was just, I just did a case study post about this because I closed the sale from podcast guesting, which was very fun to experience the results of what I teach, but I had a client sign up who heard me as a guest on a podcast, and, you know, after that interview went live, I promoted it. I messaged the host. I’m like, it was a great episode. I sent him an email. I made a list about it and just promote it, stay in touch with the host, let them know that you’re promoting it, how are you using it? So I think I gave like 10 things. Just stay really engaged and promote it.
Samantha Riley 20:12
What I love about that, it’s a relationship, it’s a two-way street. And remembering that, you know, from the host’s perspective, even when a pitch comes through, we’re researching, do we want that person on the show? So we’re already got an idea, then we’re saying yes, then we’re getting them booked, then we’re doing the interview, then we’re going to production, then, you know, then we’re promoting it to our guests and our social media. And understanding that there’s all of that work happening on the host’s side. And supporting that host does not go unnoticed. And I’ll give you a story of the opposite of this that happened to me fairly recently. I had someone on the show. And all of that happens, you know, I’d actually researched him quite a bit. Because his story was quite interesting. Anyway, we did an episode, went live, we did all of the promotion. And he sent me an email with a video in it that didn’t even say Hi, Sam. So I could tell it was a video that he sends to everyone. And it said, you know, I love to be on your show. And if you give me a testimonial saying how amazing I was as a guest, I’ll promote our episode. And I was like, Are you kidding me? And I thought, oh, maybe, maybe I’m just being a bit hormonal today, I’ll just let that go. Then I got a follow up. And I was like, Okay, Sam, now you can go. And I just sent back exactly that, like I’ve done all of this work. And it really feels, it really feels wrong. And that person, I could have potentially gone on and done collaborations with, I could have potentially, you know, podcasters know podcasters, right, I could have introduced him to other hosts. None of that will be happening now. And also, like just, it’s absolutely killed the relationship, right in the water. And the relationship piece. Business is all about relationships, you know that, you learned that through your dad right from the beginning. And if you nurture those relationships, and if you missed all of those tips that Jessica gave, go back and listen to them, because there was a lot there. Like you said there was about 10. And I highly recommend every single one of them.
Jessica Rhodes 22:28
Yeah, that guest clearly missed the mark. Because in a lot of people, they try to use this whole workflow, okay, this is going to be my strategy. I’m going to make this video. I’m going to send it to every guest. And what they totally lose in that is human connection, and just talking to people like real people. I mean, when my team books me on a podcast, I’m right away, like Oh, my God, I’m excited, because I am. I don’t just script that out. Like I just talk to people and that, the most effective marketing communications on a mass level like email, broadcast, and SMS messaging, it’s when I write like, I’m just talking to one person. And so that gets lost when someone’s like, Oh, this is going to be my strategy for podcast guesting. I’m gonna say this to every host. Okay, but you’re forgetting that every host is a human and a real person, that’s not like the other host. They’re a real person, like, just talk to people like you are talking to them in person.
Samantha Riley 23:28
Yeah, one of the tips I give my clients, because we can lose so much in like DMS or emails, is before you hit send on anything, say it out loud. And imagine that person standing in front of you. And if it feels spammy, saying it out loud, then it’s going to come across spammy in text.
Jessica Rhodes 23:45
Exactly, exactly. This is a good time also, if you are talking to people in DM, pepper in a voice message, you don’t have to do everything as a voice message because some people love them, some people hate them. But every so often I’d like to send a voice message should they know it’s actually me. So I think that’s a good tip as well.
Samantha Riley 24:02
So good. Now I know that you mentioned earlier that you have a live masterclass coming up. I’d love you to share a little bit about, you know, what you’re going to be talking about or teaching and who it’s for.
Jessica Rhodes 24:18
Yeah, thank you so much. So I host a free three-part masterclass. It’s called the Podcast Guesting Masterclass, and it’s for coaches, consultants. I’ve mentioned a couple times, it’s for online entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants, agency owners, service-based entrepreneurs who want visibility to new audiences through podcast guesting. And I teach in three different sessions. I go over the foundations of podcast guesting, how to craft your podcasts one sheet, I go over the strategies for monetizing, you know, networking with the host, increasing visibility to new audiences, use a call to action. We have a panel of speakers that come on and share how they’re using podcast guesting. So it’s coming up May 13 through the 15th. There are recordings available for one week. So if you’re in Australia, and you can’t make it to our 1pm Eastern Time sessions, you can register, and then I’ll send you the replay. And you can register at interviewconnections.com/livemasterclass.
Samantha Riley 25:22
Perfect. And we’ll put the links below as always, so that if you’re on the treadmill right now, that you can go and just click that link, but Jessica, just to wrap this up, because, we’ve talked about so many different strategies in such a short amount of time. What is one thing that you want to leave listeners with about the topic of podcast guesting? That’s just going to wrap this episode up in a beautiful present and beautiful gift.
Jessica Rhodes 25:53
Yeah, so podcast guesting is a long term strategy with many different angles and variables. And I actually just did a post on this right before this. But if it’s not working for you yet, you haven’t seen the clients reach out, don’t blame the strategy. Look at what you can change. Look at your message. What are the topics on your one sheet? Who are the show hosts that you’re reaching out to? What is your call to action? Listen back. There’s so many variables that will affect the results that you get from podcast guesting and any other marketing strategy for that matter. So constantly, stay committed to it long term, assess, reassess, commit to something that’s working, pivot when it’s not, but don’t just throw the whole strategy out because it didn’t work in a month. Stay committed to it because it’s relationships, and relationships are never going out of style.
Samantha Riley 26:50
Oh my goodness, hallelujah. I love that so much. Jessica, thanks for coming on the show today and sharing all of your information about podcast guesting. This is a topic that I absolutely love. So thank you so much.
Jessica Rhodes 27:04
Thank you for having me.
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